Over the past 5 years, the research coming out on gut health have been fascinating. While we know that every organ interacts with and impacts other systems in our bodies, how it all works and where the gut fits into this picture has remained mysterious for most of medical history. Viome is working towards uncovering insights for us, so I used their gut health intelligence test kit as an experiment in early February 2025.

I’ve been wanting to write this review for the past 6 months, but waited patiently to retest before sharing public opinions. Glad I didn’t jump the gun. 6 months ago, I may have been Viome’s biggest fan and cheerleader in social conversations, and have not paid much attention to some red flags due to my subjective feelings and excitement about the space. My knowledge on longevity and HealthTech innovation has 10x-ed within the past 12 months, which has also rewarded me with a more critical and scientific lens to view products.

You may want to skip to certain sections that are relevant to you because I tend to write essays. To give you a shortcut, in this article, you will find…

• Backstory, gut microbiome science, and company info

• What I dislike about Viome

  • Including some snippets of my results and David’s results

  • Including Viome’s official response

• Thoughts of innovation

• What I like about Viome

• My goals & future experiments

• Final words

Backstory, Gut Microbiome Science, and Company Info

To bring everyone on the same page, Viome started as a gut health intelligence test kit provider, then extended itself to oral health, and jumped on the ‘biological age’ testing trend.

The company now has a partnership with Evvy (vaginal microbiome testing) led by Priyanka Jain, the daughter of Viome’s CEO. So, the family has taken on an ecosystem to specialise in the research and analysis of microbiomes that are not commonly studied, contributing to advancements in medical ‘mystery boxes’.

The gut health kit collects a stool sample, the oral health kit collects saliva, and the full body intelligence test collects stool, saliva and blood test. The results from the test kit are revealed in different categories (like ‘gut lining’, ‘TMA production’), given a score out of 100, and a ranking (attention, improve or maintain). These categories and scores are then used to produce a list of recommended foods and supplements, along with a list of foods to minimise and avoid (for the next 6-12 months).

This is a huge step into personalised nutrition. Personalised health has been the theme for longevity experts in 2023 - 2024, because everybody has slightly different needs. AI is making the transition into personalised medicine even sooner, and Viome takes advantage of this technology.

Let’s dive into the gut microbiome science.

The gut is another organ, just like the liver and kidneys, and the ‘gut microbiome’ includes all the bacteria, viruses, fungi, archaea and eukaryotes that inhabit the human body.

• The gut is about 6.7–9.2 meters long, depending on the person’s weight (not height). Given the length, foods generally take 14 to 58 hours to move through one’s digestive tract (the average time being 28 hours).

• There are ~10x the number of microbial cells in the human gut than in the whole human body, totalling roughly 38 - 100 trillion microbes, and 1,000 - 5,000 different species.

• Women (before menopause) have a much higher variety of gut microbiome than men, and require a larger plant variety for a healthy diet. After menopause, the female gut microbiome starts to resemble the male gut microbiome. This is assumed to influence the “menopausal symptoms” like mood swings.

• Women need +25g and men need +35g of fibre a day. More recent research is suggesting a diet of 1 : 2.5 ratio (fibre : protein) for the most effective protein digestion and longevity. So, if you are consuming 120g of protein, this means consuming at least 48g of fibre a day. However, most people don’t consume more than 15g of fibre a day.

• It’s recommended to consume +30 different types of plant foods in your diet every week. This number includes herbs and spices.

• Individuals with the highest fibre consumption have a 22-23% lower risk of all-cause mortality compared to those with the lowest intake. A 10g increase in fiber per 1000 kcal corresponds to roughly 4.3 to 5.4 fewer years of biological aging for some individuals.

• Everyone’s microbiome is different, just like their fingerprint. Even identical twins are known to only share about 34% of the same gut microbes. Unrelated people share about 30%.

• Couples who live together tend to have more similar gut microbiomes than siblings. In fact, the longer a couple lives together, the more similar their gut microbiome becomes. This is largely driven by shared diets and intimacy. For example, a 10-second kiss can transfer about 80 million bacteria. Choose your partner wisely!

• The gut produces 95% of a person’s serotonin and 50% of their dopamine. The gut has its own nervous system (enteric nervous system) with neurons and neurotransmitters, allowing it to communicate with the brain, influencing mood and anxiety.

• 70% of the immune system resides in the gut. Your gut microbiome and the foods that travel through the gut influence (or “train”) your immune system in how it responds to irritants and disease.

• Key vitamins produced by the gut microbiome: B1, B2, B3, B5, B6, B7, B9, B12 (in colon) and K2.

• Leaky gut is highly associated with chronic stress, PTSD and C-PTSD, due to the damage elevated cortisol levels cause to the gut lining. These profiles also commonly experience vitamin B deficiencies, especially B5 and B12 (for women). However, in most countries (including Australia), testing for certain B-vitamins, like B5, is not available and discouraged.

• Up to 40-50% of adults globally experience chronic, uncomfortable gut symptoms, like bloating, constipation and abdominal pain.

• Faecal Microbiota Transplantation can be used to treat certain diseases. However, individual experiences show that it comes with the risk of inheriting the “healthier” individual’s “unhealthy” traits. For example, one may cure their severe acne within weeks, but take on depression in return. Fascinating stuff! Due to the risks associated with this method, healthcare professionals currently only prescribe this method under controlled care to treat severe bacterial infections in the colon.

• Gut dysbiosis is linked to obesity, Type-2 diabetes, heart diseases, IBS, immune diseases and mental health diseases.

This brings me to Viome’s mission statement: “to digitize, decode, and decipher human biology for the prevention, early diagnosis, and treatment of chronic diseases and cancer.”

How? Well, by matching the trillions of microbial cells to different pathway activities and diseases. It’s the logic of, “X profile with groups of Y and Z always links to Type-2 diabetes.”

To access these insights…

1. Fill out their questionnaire that asks about specific symptoms (i.e. skin conditions, mental health conditions), including how much you poop and fart.

2. Collect your samples. For gut health intelligence tests (which is what we have done initially), this is only a stool sample. For full body intelligence tests (which is what we have done as a follow-up test), this is a stool, saliva and blood sample.

3. Ship the testing kit back to Viome’s lab in the US.

4. An AI model analyses the samples to produce “health zones” (individual scores for specific markers), “microbiome profile” (i.e. diversity, dysbiosis), and “recommendations” (foods and supplements). If you purchased the full body intelligence test, you will also receive a biological age and inflammaging score.

5. If you live in the US, you can purchase your custom supplements directly from Viome.

If you think there is a lot of pattern recognition and correlations going on, you are spot on. That’s how Viome operates. And that’s what most of the scientific research on gut health has been based on (along with some fancy trials of faecal transfers, changing diets to track changes in the gut, etc).

On one argument, Viome “must be” super precise and accurate, as there could be trillions of different combinations of microbiome a person has, some of which gut health specialists are newly discovering (i.e. the Tanzanian villagers who eat +100g of natively grown fibre a day). On the other hand, this is an extremely challenging space to operate in with “too many” combinations and possibilities to comprehend.

Side note: I won’t comment about the oral microbiome side of things. I know when to step down, and this isn’t my area of expertise… for now. Out of everything I have obsessed about in the longevity space, oral health is still on my list of things to research. All I know is that my dentist thinks my gums are very healthy, and I only have 1 filling from past carelessness (the average is 4.6 for people aged between 20 - 35). This space (how oral microbiome impacts the rest of the organs) is also very new, with lots of mysteries to still uncover.

The catch with Viome was their personalised recommendations. The world is a paradise when someone has all the answers for you. Eat exactly like this for longevity — how easy. What’s the other option? Keep guessing what your body needs? I mean, sure, it needs “whole foods”, but maybe it needs some whole foods more than others. It’s very tempting to know that you can crack the code, especially if you have the discipline, diligence and passion to follow through, as David & I did.

On top of that, there comes the very inspirational vision statement: “Imagine A World Where Illness Is Optional” — by Naveen Jain, the CEO of Viome.

I had a few things I wanted to work on and understand about my body early last year, so I thought, why not? And I wife-pressured David to purchase a separate kit too.

I had 2 main goals:

1. Find out which type of seafood was making me feel like sh*t.

   I love seafood. Most of the time, I experience no issues when I eat seafood. Occasionally, when I get a “seafood mix” with +4 types of seafood, I experience an intense stabbing pain and sweating for about 2 hours. We went to the hospital twice for it in the past. However, we could not figure out the mystery, so I stopped having seafood altogether.

   I knew that Viome is not an official food intolerance test kit, but I thought it could give me a rough idea. No harm trying.

2. Find out whether I could have an impact on my PMS symptoms by making my gut healthier.

   About 4 days before my period, I generally experience the standard PMS symptom package that 40% of women have: bloating, mood swings, food cravings, constipation, etc. It was never severe enough for me to seriously pursue in the past, but I did not want to have any sort of monthly discomfort. If I can fully eliminate it, why not pursue this?

David had one goal: improve mental clarity and sharpness. Fair. For most individuals, cognitive health begins to decline from age 30, with faster and more noticeable changes typically occurring from age 60. So, if there is an age one should get on top of their cognitive health, it should probably be NOW.

I normally start my review with the pros, but honestly, there isn’t a lot to say, and the pros do come with some “exceptions”. So, I’m leaving that to the end.

What I Dislike About Viome?

The app that never loads

There is a line that a product needs to cross for me to complain about the technology, and it’s quite a generous one for HealthTech companies — rarely happens. My patience with HealthTech companies when it comes to user experience comes from the fact that the accuracy of testing and science backing of the model matters the most (by far).

However, somehow, Viome crossed that line for David & I, multiple times. It took me over 50 minutes to complete their “5-minute questionnaire” due to how slow each question loaded and the constant crashes. The process was so painful that I aged during the process (pun intended), and for the first time ever, I was bothered enough to bother going to the Google Store and leave feedback. It still makes me feel bad, because I dislike complaining when there is a team of people working hard to improve an app. But the app just does not work half of the time. Maybe because we live in Australia and the US time zones with dev release crossover. But I hardly ever use the app now. Given up. And it seems like we are not the only ones. Sharing only 2 examples below.

Just use the desktop version.

Customer Service

I’ve had a few experiences with the customer support team, and if I was to put an adjective to describe my experience, it would be ‘sloppy.’

The US changed their tax laws for overseas imports and exports on the 29th of August. Unsurprisingly, living in Australia and having no connections in the US, I was not aware of this and what it meant for Viome parcels.

I tried to send my parcel to Viome mid-October via Australia Post. After a couple of weeks, my parcel was returned. The only explanation given was that other “biological and non-biological samples were also being sent back.” So, I wanted to reach out to the Viome’s team and explain the situation. Their customer support email was hidden, almost impossible to find. I had to explain the situation to the chatbot, which kept on telling me that this is my problem and Viome is not responsible for returned parcels. Then, I asked for the customer support email. Eventually, the chatbot gave me an email.

Between the 15th and the 22nd of October, we discussed the situation and what to do about it. Here is a snippet from the conversation:

“I can go ahead and process a free replacement kit for you if that works. Could you please confirm your shipping ZIP code and the month and day of birth so I can verify your account and set this up? When your kit gets to you and you’re ready to send it back, just give me a shout and I’ll walk you through the steps.”

I thought, “oh, that’s great. It seems like they are experimenting with a chatbot. They need to refine it, but my problem is resolved. Thanks, team.”

But my problem was not resolved.

On the 7th of November, I sent a follow-up:

“I just want to double check that another Viome parcel was sent to ………………………. AUSTRALIA? I did not receive anything (and usually parcels from Viome arrive pretty quick), so wanted to check with you.”

On the 11th of November, I received a very odd response, asking if I have the package on hand so they can look up the tracking number. Clearly, someone didn’t read my email properly. So, on the same day, I respond with:

“Not sure what you are referring to, sorry. I don’t have the package. That’s why I am following up. I didn’t receive an ID number.”

A day later, I realised that no one actually sent the parcel to me.

“I took a look at your account, and it looks like no new orders have been processed or shipped to you. The most recent order we have on file is the kit you sent back to us in October. Right now, we haven’t received those samples at our lab yet.”

So, I took a deep breath in and replied back with:

“We emailed each other about 4 weeks ago. My original parcel could not be shipped. So you replied with……………..[quoting].”

So, my parcel was sent on the 14th of October. It was a downer because I was so excited to send my results. It was also frustrating that someone forgot about a customer. I guess it was a human mistake. And maybe their support email platform does not show the interaction history (the same email thread). Felt sloppy to me.

Here’s the other thing: they never informed me that the root cause of the issue was US tax laws. So, we had the same issue, again. As a consumer, I didn’t know I was expected to read up on every country’s tax law updates for different sized parcels. Generally, I trust the company to explain the shipping process to me and the post office to ship my parcel appropriately. To my luck, both didn’t happen.

My parcel was held for a week in US customs because “Viome has to pay taxes,” said someone from DHL on the phone. I was quite confused, but the person on the phone was confident that Viome would know about this. So, my back-and-forth emails resumed. Here’s a summary:

• Viome’s stance: “When shipping test samples internationally to Viome’s lab, all customs duties, taxes, and related fees are the responsibility of the sender. Viome does not cover international shipping or customs-related costs, including duties and taxes.”

• DHL’s stance: “As discussed, Duties & Taxes are US government fees charged for items entering the country. Duties are the responsibility of the importer (receiver) when it comes to payment. Linked here is a guide explaining this in more detail. For that reason, we can’t accept a payment from you.” [referring to me, Doa]

• My stance: “I bought this test kit before the US tax laws changed. This isn’t a rule imposed by DHL. If it were, then I would have paid at the counter while shipping. No one mentioned this to me. I asked the lady on the phone if I could make the payment on Viome’s behalf, and she said, no. I can submit payment or transfer money to Viome, and Viome can pay the taxes, if that’s an option.”

This went around in circles for way too long. I wanted to pay. DHL would not accept payment from me, as they were not the ones demanding payment in the first place. Viome would not even try to help my situation and took the attitude of, “too much hassle, not my problem.”

So, how was this resolved?

I called up several people in DHL over a week, and a lovely customer support lady had a genius idea to create a “business profile” for me, so I can “appear” as the “importer.” She bent herself backwards to resolve my problem creatively, when Viome did not give a f*ck. Viome did not even explain my why this was happening, making the assumption that I am supposed to be on top of US tax laws, while this lady spent 30 minutes on the phone taking me through the changes that happened on the 29th of August. She also mentioned that their team has been trying to contact Viome to assist with this issue as well (and no one responded to them).

Kudos to DHL! They had no incentive to help me. But they still did.

This is when the Viome experience turned rotten and left a bad taste in my mouth. Sloppy? Seemed more like once you pay for their product, they don’t care.

I don’t mind slow service. I don’t mind when products or people hit restrictions or limits. I minded but also forgotten about the initial sloppiness (forgetting to ship the testing kit). But man… the attitude of, once you pay us, it’s your problem, is unacceptable.

And this attitude is across every part of their business decisions.

End-to-end of their product experience, from the marketing emails (vs the number of educational product emails) they send you, to their app experience, and business model (selling “personalised” supplements)… it feels like the finance and marketing department threw a coup and took over the product and customer support leadership. Everything screams out, “I want to sell you more, more, MORE!”

The “personalised” science

Yep, here I am, critiquing Viome’s model. I want to make a few things clear.

1. I am NOT criticising the research behind gut microbiome and how it impacts the rest of the human body. Absolutely not disputing scientific evidence.

2. I am criticising Viome’s model from a Product Manager’s perspective, based on clear inconsistencies, lack of transparency, and lack of acknowledgement from the wider scientific or medical community.

3. I do not want to pull the focus on my or my partner’s results, because my criticisms are irrelevant to our results.

I will first share my experience, then brainstorm potential explanations, and share Viome’s response. You be the judge.

• In February 2025, I was given a list of foods to avoid, minimise, enjoy and superfoods, along with a list of gut biotics and supplements. David did the same in March.

• We were determined to stay strict to all recommendations and keen to explore some new supplements. David and I had a supplement routine like Bryan Johnson’s for a while. Eventually, through trial and error, we refined our list of supplements into the “basics” + “specifics to cycle on and off.”

• My symptoms (bloating and sharp period cramps) disappeared. Those were self-reported in the questionnaire Viome gets you to fill out before the test. David somewhat achieved his goal of mental clarity too. However, this was mostly due to adopting a healthier diet and avoiding sugary foods/drinks on an empty stomach which used to give him a sharp blood sugar rise and drop.

• David completed the next round of tests after 4 months, purchasing the full health intelligence test. He religiously followed through all recommendations, except for ‘superfoods’ (about 70%, as he didn’t like the taste of apple vinegar, sauerkraut, etc). Results: he’s had slight improvements in certain areas, but almost all of his supplements changed, his ‘avoid’ list disappeared, and most of his ‘superfoods’ changed. This was a bit confusing. Viome claims that one must avoid a food in the avoid list for 6-12 months. So, how come it’s suggesting after 4 months to “enjoy” these foods (not even “minimise”)? In fact, lean beef even moved from avoid into the “superfood” list, with the suggestion to consume this food almost daily.

• I completed the next round of tests after 9 months, also purchasing the full health intelligence test. I religiously followed through the supplements and superfoods, and followed the ‘avoid’ list for 80% of the time. My results came back worse on many areas, stayed neutral in other areas, and only improved in a few areas. The shocking bit was that the specific markers for “leaky gut” worsened when Viome’s superfood and avoid list was all aimed at improving leaky gut. So, 9 months of effort for nothing? Some of my ‘superfoods’ and ‘avoids’ were flipped, which was quite concerning. So, by following Viome’s recommendations and regularly consuming artichoke, kefir, yoghurt and asparagus, etc, I successfully irritated my gut, and these became foods that I should ‘avoid’ for the next 6-12 months. How? On the flip side, buckwheat suddenly moved from avoid to superfoods, with no in-between recommendation of “make sure you slowly introduce buckwheat, as this was in your avoid list for the past 9 months.” The supplement list also changed significantly, with “tribulus” being introduced.

• Despite being completely suspicious of these recommendations, I tried to consume buckwheat 3 times since the results. Each time, I experienced bloating and sharp stomach cramps. I did not need to consume 605g of tribulus (as suggested) because I already know how that would impact me. Last year, I accidentally took David’s tribulus supplement (known to boost testosterone in men) in 250g for a week (mixed up our pills). Let me tell you something: that week was a nightmare. Sometimes, we look back and laugh about my behaviour during that week. Let’s say I’ve gotten a taste of what it’s like to be a 14-years-old boy… with full blast anger, “you wanna fight, you think you’re tough, I’m tougher” energy, “leave me alone dude” attitude, and a never-ending horny-ness. At one time, I got so angry after burning the eggs that I walked outside and hammered that pan on the grass until it broke off. Not kidding. David looked scared because I generally either feel happy, dreamy, bubbly, bouncy, sometimes sad, but very rarely, angry. Not something I wish to experience again. And Viome recommends 2.42x the dose. Not sure what to think. My mouth dropped open.

So… what do you make of this story?

I was very confused and concerned. There were a lot of questions circling through my head.

I needed answers. I was not ready to rule out Viome, and wanted to give them a chance, an opportunity to explain this before any I came up with my theories and conclusions.

So, I sent them an email. It’s long with a lot of questions — no accusations, I respect the team and the vision they are striving towards. 9 days later, I received a strong response. I really appreciate that.

Here are my thoughts and theories… and Viome’s responses

Viome’s recommendations are purely based on the questionnaire/survey (or heavily, >50%, influenced by it)

This could explain the sudden shifts between ‘avoids’ and ‘superfoods’.

Example: buckwheat moved from “avoid” (for leaky gut) to “superfood” (for mood) after I selected a mood-related goal, even though leaky gut indicators remain present.

A few other foods have also changed, following this logic (from my observations and deep-dives).

The downer is that it defeats the whole purpose of Viome. I mean, I could have asked ChatGPT, “recommended foods and supplements for female hormonal balance and mood.” It would have also handed me a generic risk.

Seems like others arrived at the same conclusion, too.

Viome’s response:

“Food recommendations are driven primarily by your health scores, which reflect gene expression activity across pathways. Self-reported goals do not override your biological data. Instead, the goals help highlight which pathways to prioritize and focus on when generating recommendations to support those specific outcomes.”

So, I guess we agree.

This comes down to subjective opinions, but I don’t see the value in following Viome’s recommendations any more than avoiding ultra-processed foods, refined sugars and carbs, and using my own AI model to ask advice based on specific health goals that I have.

Maybe I am being cynical, but I want to opt in for a model that identifies and prioritises what I need, rather than what I think I need (or what I want). It kind of kills the selling point for me.

Viome sample quality degrades over time (shipping & transit time impacts accuracy)

Viome’s response:

“Your sample remains stable for up to 30 days due to the preservatives used in the collection kits. There is no week-by-week degradation curve, and extended transit times do not meaningfully affect accuracy within that window.”

If there is no week-by-week degradation curve, then why have a “30 day” rule? Maybe the degradation curve starts after 30 days. I can accept that.

Viome’s recommendations and results are only accurate with full health intelligence tests (when a blood sample is also collected)

Maybe, the reason behind my markers getting worse, and the food and supplement recommendations list dramatically changing is due to the fact that the gut health intelligence test was never accurate to start off with. We assumed this may be the case after David’s results looked very different as well.

The idea that getting a full comprehensive test with more markers collected (blood AND stool) showing more accurate results makes sense.

The real danger is that you could be recommended foods and supplements that actually harm your gut and other organs. This really concerned me. Feels unethical to sell the gut health intelligence test (at least without clearly highlighting the risks associated with it) when data is not reliable?

Potentially, the recommendations could harm someone. Maybe that’s why my results have become worse over time — maybe Viome’s recommendations caused further harm to my gut.

However, how come neither the stool sample nor the blood sample could not pick up that certain foods/supplements were impacting me negatively — i.e. buckwheat and tribulus?

Viome’s response:

“Viome results are a snapshot of your biological needs at a specific moment in time. Your microbiome, cellular activity, and immune responses are highly dynamic…

In your case, this change is also influenced by the fact that you upgraded from Gut Health Intelligence to Full Body Intelligence. Your newer recommendations are no longer based on gut data alone. They now incorporate gut, oral, and cellular (blood) gene expression. As a result, a food that was previously beneficial for one system may be temporarily limited if another system now needs priority support.

For example, in the case of buckwheat, even if some gut lining indicators remain present, your updated data may show that its compounds now provide a stronger net benefit for pathways related to mood or neurotransmitter balance, while other foods are better suited to address gut lining support at this stage.

This is why recommendations can feel like a tradeoff, but they are designed to optimize your overall biological function rather than a single marker.

Gut Health Intelligence recommendations are not harmful. They are simply narrower in scope and may be refined once additional biological data becomes available through Full Body Intelligence.

Our recommendations do not guarantee that specific pathway scores will improve linearly, especially because the microbiome and immune system are influenced by many factors beyond food and supplements, including stress, sleep quality, illness, medications, and environmental changes.

It’s also not uncommon to see certain scores decline while symptoms improve. This can happen when the body is recalibrating... Fluctuations do not necessarily indicate regression. They often help guide the next phase of personalization, which is exactly why retesting is valuable.

Firstly, glad to hear that recommendations are not harmful. Makes me less concerned.

Secondly, I think this proves that the “recommendations” feature isn’t valuable.

The “avoids” list doesn’t contain foods that actually harm a biological system. If you choose to avoid those foods, you may optimise one aspect of your health. Emphasis on “may” because, depending on which test you purchase, what you should “avoid” will change. Also, because recommendations are a “tradeoff.” By avoiding certain foods, you are only “helping” one particular goal, while simultaneously not helping another goal. You can never win, never do the right thing for your health! There is no net positive. It’s net neutral, “which is exactly why retesting is valuable,” as Viome said. How convenient for the business!

It’s the attitude that every food is helping AND harmful to you, depending on the angle you choose to look at it — quite cynical (and vague), not a mindset I’d like to adopt with whole foods.

Thirdly, I am questioning the reliability of the model altogether.

• “Biological needs at a specific moment in time” — how specific? Monthly? Weekly? Daily?

• “Highly dynamic” — how dynamic?

• Hence why, “fluctuations don’t necessarily indicate regression” — how much fluctuations within what time frame? What is the point of testing?

“Viome does not evaluate individual biomarkers in isolation. Instead, we analyze gene expression patterns and map them to functional biological pathways.”

Which genes? The human genome has approximately 30,000 genes. Some resources suggest between 20,000 - 25,000 protein coding genes.

Worse is that some of these genes (expression) change on a daily basis! I’ve lost my head in research papers for a couple of hours, then took another hour on LLMs for a different opinion. Conclusion: “inputs (dietary change, stress, sleep, etc) can shift gut microbial gene expression within 24-72 hours.”

Viome mentioned that stress can also impact the test results. 2 weeks leading up to the test were a stressful time for me due to family conflict. But this week, I feel incredibly excited to head off for an amazing hike in Tasmania. So, did I suddenly become “biologically younger,” or did my leaky gut suddenly move from X score to Y score? Do you see how murky the waters get?

Given all that, and even for the sake of improving accuracy, how is Viome comfortable with collecting only 1 stool sample? See the section below for my elaboration on this topic.

Viome’s just trying to make money

I mean… they make their profits from supplement subscriptions (which are expensive). This is a common criticism the company receives. If I was a Product Manager at Viome, I would put a ton of focus into building customer trust, especially when the business model raises suspicions.

I think I can comfortably make the assumption that most of their customers don’t purchase their test more than once a year. Some of their customers may purchase their test 2x a year. Plenty of their customers never repeat the test. That’s the nature of how “testing” companies work. Repeat customers are very challenging. People who are into regular testing (like I am) will most likely follow this approach on comprehensive blood tests instead, where they can actually see their exact results.

As mentioned before, how convenient it is that fluctuations can happen regularly, so customers should purchase a test and keep updating their supplements frequently. Not to mention their recommended supplement list is both long and in very odd quantities, so individually purchasing them online is a huge hassle, especially if you have to update them every 4-6 months. You may as well open a local chemist.

Hypothetically, if a company were to constantly update the supplements recommendations list it would incentive customers to purchase an ongoing subscription to their supplements service. But it can’t be too bad, right? After all, the gut loves a bit of variety! (Deliberate sarcasm).

Model limitations: how is Viome comfortable with collecting only 1 stool sample?

Many clinical stool tests deliberately require 2–3 samples collected on different days for well-studied reasons.

1. Stool is highly heterogeneous. A single bowel movement is not biologically uniform. Different regions of the same stool can contain different microbial communities; gas-producing microbes may be unevenly distributed.

2. This often falls through the cracks, but day-to-day variability is also influenced by stool transit time, circadian rhythms, hormonal fluctuations, and the last meal.

Hence, some studies show that one’s ****gut microbiome composition can vary from day to day, especially at the gene expression level, which is what Viome focuses on.

Examples:

• Clinical parasitology guidelines often require 3 samples over 3 days because a single sample can miss up to 30–50% of detectable organisms.

• In 20 healthy Belgian women with daily sampling over 6 weeks (713 faecal samples)…

  • For 78% of genera, day-to-day absolute abundance variation was larger within a person than between people.

  • 72% of genera showed >10-fold shifts between consecutive daily samples.

Why is Viome asking for 1 sample? Here’s my suspicion: it’s a hassle. Some people experience regular constipation. Asking customers to collect 3 samples may be annoying for people. It’s a tradeoff — by simplifying the process, they are lowering the accuracy of understanding one’s biological needs. It’s also cheaper for Viome to only work with 1 stool sample.

Viome’s response was sure of their AI model’s accuracy. I believe them. But an AI model is only as accurate as the samples provided. And the gut microbiome result accuracy does not mean accuracy of “recommendations,” as there are quite a few people who point out that Viome can’t tell if someone is intolerant or allergic to certain foods. One example below.

Model limitations: how come Viome cannot recognise intolerances?

So, they are confident that they can recognise when a food causes inflammation in the gut, but they cannot recognise intolerance. How? I thought that when one consumes foods they are intolerant to, these foods will cause inflammation in the gut. So, theoretically, Viome should be able to pick up when foods are not good for the gut. Right?

I know they have labels to say that they are not a medical diagnosis tool and shouldn’t be taken as an allergy test. But I would assume that they can see to some extent whether a food or a supplement hurts the gut or not. It just makes sense!

So, how come they recommended tribulus as a supplement? How come buckwheat (which gives me sharp stomach cramps for hours) is my superfood? How come tomatoes moved from ‘avoid’ to ‘enjoy’ when they still make me bloated? There are other examples like this too. How come Viome’s AI model can’t tell?

Model limitations: I don’t think I was being compared against others of my age and gender

I suspected this after the dramatic contradictions between TruDiagnostic and Viome test results for energy pathways, mitochondrial health and oxidative stress. Guys, not to brag, but I’m 16 years old with my OMICm biological age (9 years younger on TruDiagnostic) for a reason. My energy pathways are like fireworks.

Something that I learned from the TruDiagnostic experience is that inflammation and oxidative stress change immensely from age 18 to 80. “High oxidative” stress for a 40-years-old could be “excellent” levels for an 18-years-old, due to the high (or appropriate) levels of compounds tracked in the person that play a critical role in cellular health.

I don’t expect the exact same results, and it’s not realistic to expect that either, given the differences in models. But my results across almost all fields were exact opposites of each other. So, I asked, “are results benchmarked against age/gender cohorts or the general Viome customer population?” Here is the response:

“Your results are benchmarked against a large internal reference cohort of over 600,000 samples analyzed to date, rather than narrow age or gender bands alone.”

I hate to be right. Viome is comparing apples to oranges. Of course, the male and female microbiome is different. There are also several studies showing postmenopausal microbiomes as less diverse, and more similar to men than the premenopausal microbiome (e.g. postmenopausal women have higher Bacteroides sp. Ga6A1, Prevotella marshii, Sutterella wadsworthensis, and lower Escherichia coli–Shigella spp., Akkermansia muciniphila, Parabacteroides johnsonii).

I wonder… Who are these +600,000 people? Mostly women or men? What age range are they in? What % are pregnant or breastfeeding as they completed the test? Are they overall on the healthier or unhealthier side (i.e. what % of their customers have +1 chronic diseases due to lifestyle factors)? Who was my data really benchmarked against?

This may explain why their supplements are recommended in very strange doses (i.e. not taking male/female, body size into account). Just 2 examples, so I don’t bore you:

• 605mg of tribulus for me? That was shocking, especially given how I reacted to 250mg.

• David was recommended the tiniest amount of ashwagandha, even for a woman. He’s a tall and big man. I’ve done a lot of research on ashwagandha for both of us as part of my “healing nervous system” protocol, and he has even tested out the recommended amount. The dose is too low. Maybe it’s “enough” to aid with one gut-related goal, but not enough for noticeable improvements.

Model limitations: biological age heavily relies on gut health

I had this suspicion due to the contradictory results from TruDiagnostic and Viome. I hypothesised that their model heavily relies on the stool sample (instead of blood tests, because this is their original area of speciality), and uses blood tests as an “extra” or “addition” to “complete the picture” — meaning, the blood test is only used when it’s not possible to view a pathway via the gut.

Here comes the truth:

“Viome’s BioAge and system scores are derived from functional gene expression across gut, oral, and blood samples, with significant input from microbiome activity. Other platforms, such as TruDiagnostic, rely more heavily on epigenetic or methylation-based markers from blood alone.”

Nothing wrong with that, but it needs to be made clear from the beginning. When a blood test is included in the testing kit, there is a certain assumption that comes from the customer.

While gut health is very important (and certainly a goal for me to work on over the next 3-5 years), I’m not interested in my “gut health age”. It’s a subjective opinion or a mindset (a certain way of viewing health) — I acknowledge that a lot of gut health research is based on correlations, and this is still a very new field — so, I view gut as one organ among many other organs, rather than the key determiner of mortality/biological age.

Again, nothing wrong with that, but want to share with my audience, so you are aware of Viome’s bias towards gut health.

Model limitations: questions around scientific backing, reliability and transparency

I don’t mind that Viome is not FDA-approved. But I expect full, end-to-end transparency and evidence of reliability, accuracy and science-backing. This is where Viome enters into the “dodgy” territory.

Here’s their response:

“Viome has conducted internal validation and repeatability studies, and our science is supported by peer-reviewed research. You can explore published studies and methodology in more detail at viome.com/publications.”

Yes, this link does show that Viome has peer-reviewed publications describing their RNA/metatranscriptomic* approaches and some clinical work. I tried to consume a lot of this content and used LLM to assist me.

But, almost all of this work is produced and validated by Viome (how convenient) AND it does not automatically validate the consumer-facing “health scores” + recommendation engine.

*Metatranscriptomics: study of the total RNA produced by microbial communities at a specific time. It reveals gene expression within microbes, their metabolic activities, and responses to environmental changes.

“Peer-reviewed research” ≠ “independently validated consumer product”.

Maybe the study is there, but I could not find a publicly available table to answer (and to share in my blog):

“If I do the test 3x back-to-back under controlled conditions, what’s my expected variance band?”

This is the question I sent to Viome. In retrospect, I should have also asked to see this table across shipping delays.

It seems like I am not the only one who noticed this. In fact, it seems like someone even tried to send multiple samples to Viome to run this test.

See 2 other researcher reviews from people smarter than me.

Exert from XCODE.life (screenshot):

Found a review on Wired recently.

“In reality, there is very little clarity to these “insights,” there’s almost no transparency behind the “health scores,” and the list of food recommendations is all over the place. If I were a cynic, I would think that Viome is making things deliberately obtuse so people get overwhelmed and just shell out for Viome’s wildly expensive “Precision Formulas” (i.e., supplements). I might be a cynic.

…

At this point, I was three layers deep, but Viome does not tell you in the app what it’s actually testing. We reached out to Viome, and Grant Antoine, a naturopathic doctor and the nutrition and clinical lead at Viome, responded that Viome uses RNA sequencing to decode the gene activity of mitochondrial proteins; the company does have its own research facility with its own proprietary sequencing methods. Antoine also pointed out that the raw data from RNA sequencing isn’t interpretable or useful without Viome’s AI-enabled bioinformatic analysis.

Without any numbers that I could double-check or run past any other experts, it was hard to trust these results.”

Interesting. I’m the sort of person who would get a 2nd opinion on most things relating to my health (i.e. go to see 2 specialists, if a surgery is required, maybe even 4 specialists).

If I was a product leader in Viome… in such a new field with lots of caution about longevity science, rather than trying to keep my model inside a black box so potential competitors don’t copy my secrets, I would try to optimise my product for transparency so I collect customer trust. This is especially important because to my knowledge, Viome is not selling their test kits to dieticians (as it’s not a medical diagnosis tool).

And there you have it. Mini essay on “cons” is over.

It’s such a shame because I’ve been a big fan of Viome for about 4-5 months last year. It’s also a bit embarrassing because I talked them up a lot in my social circle and now am tracing my steps back with the attitude of, “my mistake, don’t judge me.”

Thoughts of Innovation

Given how long my “what I dislike about Viome” section was, I will keep this short.

• Unfortunately, supplements are not shipping to many countries outside of the US. Would have been convenient for us to order directly from Viome. On the flip side, I discovered Bioniq (UK company), which does custom supplement mixtures.

• Despite not being able to ship supplements to Australia, I was able to go through their “upgraded” funnel to “purchase” the option with a subscription for supplements. I hope that’s a product mistake/accident. Just make sure you read their T&Cs and check that you will actually receive every component of the product to your address before you pay.

• Test Kit (collecting samples): would be nice to add an additional finger prick. It was very hard to collect blood for me. David did not struggle as much, but it was still challenging for him.

• Email comms are out of date (about 7 - 10 days after). Example: if my parcel arrives to Viome on the 2nd, I will receive an email on the 10th to inform me that my parcel arrived. Likewise, for when my results are available to view.

• The “recommendations” list should recognise the customer context/history and provide tips accordingly. Example: it would be nice to provide a tip to a customer on how they can slowly introduce broccoli to their diet as a “superfood” after avoiding this food completely for the past 6-12 months. That way, changes would not be shocking to the gut.

• Collaborations: it would really help their credibility to get out of their ecosystem and collaborate with external HealthTech businesses, gut health professionals, etc. Not longevity influencers they can pay — I do trust some of them, but again, it breaks trust when you pay someone to say nice things about your product.

• More thought-leadership: Viome strikes me as a company that is too marketing-heavy. I would like to see more thought-leadership and educational communication (and less promotional) by the company. I don’t want them to lead the market because they are the first one who entered into the space — that’s not a long-term strategy. Currently, they still exist in their own eco chamber.

• On Viome’s questionnaire, have an option to skip the “goals.” If recommendations are influenced by the goals a user selects, then I would not want to intervene with these results — I would like the option to skip this question or select “improve general health.”

What I Like About Viome

First Time Recommendations “Worked”

Now, this is going to sound contradictory. I went on and on about the faults and lack of transparency and potential risks (or ineffectiveness) of trusting Viome’s recommendations. Now, I’m saying that they actually work. What???

I think this goes back to an earlier comment I made: “the goals help highlight which pathways to prioritize and focus on when generating recommendations” (quoted from Viome’s response). So, it’s no surprise that when I faced some challenges with my gut health (during the first test) and filled out the questionnaire with noticeable symptoms in mind, the recommendations helped.

For full transparency, this is what worked.

• Bloating: especially leading up to my periods, I used to experience noticeable bloating. Sometimes, without an explanation, after dinners, I would bloat too. I was suspicious of tomatoes (which are a big part of the Mediterranean cuisine, my birthplace), white rice and gluten. Turns out, I should be avoiding those. I felt validated. No more issues ever since. Viome now reckons I can “enjoy” tomatoes, but I’m still limiting my consumption, as I feel like consuming a lot of tomatoes still cause the same issue.

• Constipation** leading up to periods: not sure if Viome’s recommendations really helped with this, but I know that eating more fibre did. I used to follow the standard guide for female adults: 25g of fibre a day. Guys, that’s the bare minimum. Your life will change if you consume more fibre, as long as you slowly introduce more fibre. There is a ton of scientific evidence for that, conducted in “healthy” individuals. I have slowly worked my way up to 40g of fibre a day last year. I experimented with 50g of fibre and realised that this is the threshold for how much fibre my body can handle, so eventually settled down for 45g of fibre (on average) every day. I also set a goal to track my water intake and increase my water intake, which greatly helped. So, not sure how much of the credit actually goes to Viome for this.

• Sharp and heavy period cramps that require a ton of pills: this was probably the 2nd biggest win after the bloating mystery. Viome introduced me to 2 herbal supplements, which were a game-changer. I later found out that these supplements were known in traditional herbal medicine for period cramps and regulating female hormones. Dandelion Root and Nettle Leaf. I would like to highly recommend these to everyone suffering from period cramps, because I have not taken period-related pills ever since May 2025, but… I am aware that everyone’s body is unique, so don’t want to take the responsibility of making recommendations. If you want to try, approach with caution.

• The unexplainable sharp stomach cramps with sweating and fever 2x a year: we already knew that this was due to a type of seafood, as it only happened when we cooked “seafood mix”. Viome suggested it could be scallops and clams. So, I tried every other type of seafood individually — I had the guts to do that — and all came out clean. Ever since, I never had scallops or clams, and I never experienced food reaction. However, within the questionnaire, I suggested my suspicions about seafood. So, maybe, they took a hint.

**Constipation means 1 day of not going to the bathroom properly. I have to clarify this because people generally think of constipation as not going to the bathroom for more than a couple of days (which is a BIG PROBLEM in my opinion).

AI-powered result analysis & hyper-personalisation

It’s a pro in theory. It definitely gives them an edge in the market. I am not convinced of the reliability of their recommendations. But it is convenient to receive a list of things to eat and avoid (if you don’t have time to do your own research).

I shared Viome’s response in my blog. Not for me. But maybe for you.

It’s very disappointing because I deeply believe in the idea of “personalised medicine.” However, this month, with some of my other research as well, I’ve been questioning the practical reality behind this idea. If you have the finances to get tested on a daily or a weekly basis on multiple different tests, you could constantly adjust your nutrition and supplements, like a product manager on edge. But if you don’t have a team of advisors and health professionals following your every step and testing you frequently, like some of the longevity influencers do, how accurate is “personalised” medicine when the frequency of data is far apart, like every 6 months? Or perhaps this again comes down to the reliability of each test (product).

Marketing, product packaging, discounts, vision & mission statements

As mentioned before, they have an excellent marketing team. Too good in my opinion. Great marketing strategies, seasonal discounts for affordable test kits (in comparison to other options in the market), modern slick design, and an inspiring and ambitious vision & mission statements. Loved their shiny test kit boxes that come with a card from Viome’s CEO. Promotional activities have been very well thought through. Good for Insta posts, if you’re into that.

My Goals & Future Experiments

I gave up. I surrender. Going to travel around the world for the next 6 months with a YOLO attitude eating Taiwanese fried chicken, spring rolls, taquitos, churros, philly cheesestakes, Crumbl cookies, and whatever else is in my YouTube feed.

Jokes.

Not the travel part, though. When this post goes live, I will be starting the most daring hike in Tasmania, then the 2nd most daring hike. There is a Turkish saying, “the world is a pan and we are the ladle, round and round we go.” That’s the plan.

During this time, and for the rest of the year, I am going back to the basics again — avoid clinically tested intolerances/allergies and eat a variety of seasonal whole foods.

In the past, I crafted my diet based on how well I knew my body. I wish I could offload this to Viome or another company. But given my track record of blood test results, it seems like when I was hands-on with my diet, I had pretty good health. What does being “hands-on” include?

• Comprehensive blood tests 2-4x a year (depending on my budget) to identify areas to work on. I aim for optimal results across everything, not the ‘averages’.

• Adopt a “leaky gut” diet for full protection and continue working on healing my nervous system. I sound like a broken record, but trauma is highly linked to leaky gut.

• Consume 45g of fibre a day. This amount is specific to my body after 12 months of testing, in proportion to daily protein amount.

• Drink an adequate amount of water every day.

• Eat a variety of foods (50 types of plants a week), adopting the rainbow-diet mindset.

• Avoid ultra-processed foods, refined sugar, refined carbs and artificial sweeteners.

• Try to source ‘organic’ options for certain heavily sprayed plants, or ‘wild’, ‘hormone-free’ etc, where/if my budget supports.

• Cap takeout and restaurant foods, especially after my long world trip.

Additionally, in London^, I am planning to get a proper food intolerance and leaky gut test done to identify foods to avoid. If anyone has any recommendations on this, please let me know!

Final Words

At the end of the day, ask yourselves, why do you want a gut health intelligence test? When I really thought through this question, I realised that there is a better product out there for every reason.

• There are clinically approved food intolerance tests that I can complete, provided by medical professionals.

• There are comprehensive blood tests I can purchase to track certain metrics.

• If I’m interested in my biological age, I’ll go with TruDiagnostic.

The use case for Viome is no longer there for me. Because after 12 months, despite still believing in the role gut microbiome plays in longevity, I learned that the gut likes variety.

To finish off, I highly support HealthTech businesses to be innovative and ambitious. I understand how many iterations are needed to perfect formulas and frameworks. However, certain HealthTech products carry a heavier risk and responsibility, hence my strict judgement on Viome. Hope they continue to grow and iterate. I’m curious to see how Viome’s products change over the next 3-5 years.

^Oops, did I mention London? I guess I have to share the news now. We won’t be coming back to Australia anytime soon. September onwards, keen to connect with fellow product people, HealthTech workers and longevity nerds in and around the UK. I’ll be applying for product roles as well. In the meantime, don’t expect to receive many articles from me. I’m planning to be very busy drinking coconuts near a waterfall.

All the images I use have been generated using deepai.org (the pop art generator). 🦸‍♀️

If this post is helpful to you, it will probably help others too. Share with a colleague, and if you haven’t done so, subscribe.

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See my other HealthTech product reviews below:

• Exploring Whoop & starting a major health experiment

• TruDiagnostic Review

• Neurode: Product Testing Experience

• Pulsetto Experiment: Vagal Nerve Stimulation to Improve HRV

If the next 3 months had a tune to it, Meghan Trainor would be singing it, because for most of the time, she heard…

“My name is no, my sign is no, my number is no, uh

You need to let it go, uh

You need to let it go, uh

Need to let it go”

If you are reading this, I am assuming that you have already gone through my ultimate checklist to land your first product role and are now ready to send your first set of job applications. In this article, I’ll be sharing what to expect during this process and how to stay strategic and sane throughout it.

General Useful Points

1. Treat career transitions like a marathon, not a sprint. Sounds obvious, but hear me out. If you think the job market is tough right now, it’s 2x tougher for you. Transitioning into a product role takes 6-12 months. It’s a long journey! I wouldn’t try to ‘hack out’ job applications over one weekend. Consistency is what matters. Spare some regular time every week, so you don’t burn out within the first 2 months.

2. Optimism is a highly useful skill to have. Highly recommend.

3. Reminder: you need to translate your past life into the language of product. In other words, don’t try to speak French when trying to find a job in Japan. The whole job application process — your interactions with the recruiter, hiring managers, resume, how you respond to interview questions, etc — needs a Product Manager. Not an ex-marketer, or an ex-designer.

Expect Prejudices

And prep for them! Before you start sending applications to product roles, I want you to know that no one wants to hire a non-product manager to a Product Manager role. Flash news.

Treat prejudiced comments similarly to customer complaints or concerns about your future product. If handled right (and you respond well), they could even become your advocates.

Some common prejudices to prep for:

• “You only want to become a PM to feel like a CEO who owns cool products.”

  • Easy fix! Most interviews start with a “tell me about yourself” line. This is your chance to set the context. Tell them about yourself, what brought you to a career transition and what product management means to you. See Why Do Want to Be a Product Manager for some guidance on this.

• “You’ll need too much hand-holding to learn.”

  • At the start of this article, I mentioned that you need to translate your past life into the language of product. Well, that surely helps ease this concern, along with your confidence during the interview rounds.

  • I am a big fan of creating mini portfolios when applying for your first product role. This can be a visual way of summarising your experience. You can share your screen during an interview and talk through how you are growing as an aspiring PM. This will be direct evidence that you demonstrated product ways of thinking. Nowadays, this idea is becoming quite popular, due to the rising popularity of AI, where leading companies in the space are requiring not just CVs but also portfolios to attach in the application form. Treating product job applications like design and engineering applications will become the norm in 2026. The idea of building a portfolio scares aspiring PMs due to their lack of experience. Hey, I never said a portfolio needs to show end-to-end build and launch of 5 different successful tech products. It could show simple experiences. What matters for aspiring PMs is for the product portfolio to demonstrate product ways of thinking.

• “You are going to bring marketing/design/HR/past job culture” (and that’s a threat to our existing product culture).

  • As mentioned before, speak in the language of product. In my experience, the “product sense” questions serve the purpose of assessing this risk. Practise not to “respond well” by memorising structures, frameworks and templates, but by understanding and empathising with the product mindset. This might be a good read for you: The Art of Blending Into the Product Culture.

• “You are not technical enough to become a PM.” This can appear in other ways, like “not sure if you can get along with/effectively communicate with our engineering team.”

  • I don’t want to be too repetitive, so directing you to the “Thoughts on the not technical enough judgement when wanting to become a PM” article. You’ll find many tips & tricks to alleviate this concern.

Even the jobs that rejected me after interview rounds wished me well and said they believe I will land a role soon with another company. They saw the passion and the potential. In fact, most rejections happened because the job requirements changed. Preparation allows you to have some control over the interview flow and address concerns professionally and elegantly.

How to Apply

Transitioning to a new career is challenging, so any way to smooth the experience counts. A new role may have a lot of unknowns, so finding areas of relatability and passion can make the process smoother (i.e. reduce your risk as a hire). Draw your focus on similar industries, similar types of customer segments, companies or products, similar processes (operating methods), or perhaps spaces where your ex-colleagues have worked (and they can refer you). Landing a role in a familiar space (and one that you have a passion for) will make your transition stage easier and more exciting as well.

That being said, if your space is too niche or you can’t find enough product roles in familiar spaces, then increasing your surface area will help you land a role faster. I have observed individuals waiting for over 12 months to land their first product roles because their search was too narrow. They all had a regretful attitude, as the process dragged a bit too long. I am not advocating for batch applications, trying to hit over 200 resumes sent within X months. However, hiring managers will only discover you if you are in their vision, and landing a role always involves some luck. So, increase your surface area to gain more visibility.

Titles are going to feel very confusing. Product culture values “projects” over titles. This may depend on the complexity of the product, technology or industry the PM is working in. Some PMs are very technical and operate in tricky systems that require valuable niche skills. Some PMs work with well-known consumer products that grow slowly and maintain the status quo. You will find some PMs getting paid +$200k a year, while others are only making it to $70k. Other roles (i.e. marketing) would like to think that they operate in the same way (by providing advice to young people, “focus on your work, titles don’t matter”), but that’s not really the case. Titles mean something for a lot of types of roles. They imply a certain salary range, authority over decisions, and certain job responsibilities. Certain titles automatically win respect and have a greater say. Product is a role that does not have direct authority over the ‘executers’ (the engineers); one of the original rules of product culture is leading by influence (and gaining respect due to skills), not by authority. This makes product titles confusing, because a “Product Manager” job ad could pay +$200k a year and genuinely require difficult skills with +10 years of experience, while another “Product Manager” job ad could only be after a smart junior person with a ton of potential, energy and curiosity to grow. So, let me clarify some things.

• If you are finding it really hard to break into product and wondering if you should take an intermediate step by applying for BA or Project Manager types of roles, then expect to wait around for another 3 years. I have not seen that strategy make an aspiring PM’s career transition easier or quicker so far. I’ve observed the opposite and wrote a whole section about why it doesn’t work in How to Gain Experience in Product Without Having Experience in Product article.

• I generally don’t recommend applying for “Junior PM,” “Associate PM,” or “Product Intern” titles, unless it’s your dream to work for a company like Google and this role is advertised by that sort of company. If you really want to put Google’s (or an equivalent) logo on your resume, then a junior/intern title may actually be your only chance of entry (unless you are tightly connected with someone who has influence over the hiring decisions). For every other company (and to some extent, for companies with flashy logos too), my main opposition is the lack of learning opportunities. The roles of a product person involve a list of skills and activities — you should expect to manage a product/feature/user flow end-to-end. If you are more junior, you will receive more support and hand-holding, but should still work like a PM. Usually, the “junior” titles are shoved to parts of a PM’s role and receive visibility over the other parts by shadowing Senior PMs. I’ve seen people whose day-to-day is writing Jira tickets and acting as the messenger between stakeholders, not actually executing much. This is because the types of companies that split product’s job titles to so much granularity (i.e. intern —> junior —> PM —> Senior PM —> Principle PM —> HoP —> Group Product —> VP of Product) have very strict job descriptions. It’s predictable and very structured, but you usually can’t step outside of it to learn more. You can’t learn about product without doing product! By the way, this structure also comes with a strict “time of experience” (i.e. even if you are amazing, unless you complete X years in title X, you won’t step up to title Y). Maybe it is personal preference, as I’d like to be thrown in the deep end of projects, and learn best while doing (even if the “doing” involves a lot of struggling). I know some people feel safer operating in environments where everything has been decided in black and white for them. In that case, perhaps you should go for the Junior PM roles. I’d just hate to see you writing Jira tickets for 12 months behind the scenes after grinding through 6-12 months to land your first role. One more thing, in my experience, it is actually not any easier to land an Associate PM role, in comparison to a regular PM role, due to the equal amount of competition. So, this is certainly not going to be a shortcut for you.

• So, apply for the Product Manager roles. It may feel scary (it did for me at the time), but go ahead and click the apply button… once you read the job description and decide if it actually suits your experience. This is the tricky bit. A few tips:

  • Read a lot of PM job descriptions. You will start to see commonalities between certain roles and realise that some seem to require more complex skills and a wider set of skills than others. Try to understand the level of authority of this role from the job description.

  • Some roles will describe more about the PM’s characteristics than the tasks they are doing — i.e. use words like “agile, eager to learn, curious, adaptable,” along with “execute XYZ with this other person.” This type of language is a clear indicator that the company’s ideal candidate is junior, so their attitude and work ethic matter more, as they will already receive support from more senior people.

  • Look at the number of years of experience required. 1-3 years is a clear sign that the role is quite junior. Very safe to apply to. Some roles require 3-5 years of experience, which may still be ok to apply to if you think that the job description doesn’t sound too senior. Note that most companies will use the standard 3-5 years of experience as their requirements, without actually thinking deeply about what that means.

  • You may also want to see the past product hires of the company and the background of the hiring manager. If you can see a track record of super-experienced PMs being hired from really hotshot companies, then you probably don’t have a chance.

  • Lastly, have a go at applying to different types of product roles. Learn from your own experience. See what you are naturally attracting.

When it comes to how to apply for a product role, there is a huge controversy. Should you or should you not send a cold outreach, a personalised message to the hiring managers?

I don’t see any point in discussing if this is morally right or not (i.e. is trying to cut corners wrong), given how many other morally wrong practices happen during the whole candidate selection process (i.e. ghosting candidates, ridiculously low-balling their salaries, etc). We all try for ourselves in business (to some extent). For certain sensitive topics and processes with a lot of unspoken rules and “exception” cases, I tend not listen to what people say much, but observe what people do instead, which can sometimes conflict.

I can only speak from my experience whether this works or not. Reminder that I also helped quite a lot of aspiring PMs land their first product roles. So far, the best interviews I had came from cold outreach, because the hiring manager was interested in me from the beginning. All the roles I ever landed (including ones within the same organisation) came from informal ways and cold outreach. I also tried submitting my resume in formal ways. Funny, but it seems like resumes sent via cold outreach get read more than resumes submitted via an online application portal.

Here are some of my other observations:

• Cold outreach works in some cases. Doesn’t in others. Same type of message and same amount of passion — always about 25% response rate for me. In my case, that’s actually a higher percentage than direct applications, because historically I’ve been quite ambitious with the roles I targeted. I sought to be challenged more, and brought Groucho Marx’s attitude of refusing to join any club that would have me as a member. When you aim high, you become a “risky” hire, who most hiring managers don’t want, and definitely no recruiters want. So, I have been reluctant to put much effort into a <5% chance of entering a company through the door, when I could put in more effort by climbing on the roof and squeezing through the chimney. Not the most graceful way, as you have a smokey arrival, but you clean yourself off and get to work. Soon, people forget about it, and you become part of the furniture. Jokes aside, the response rate is different for each person, so run some tests and see if it’s worth following through. I assume for an aspiring PM, chances of a cold outreach responding to a passionate, personalised and proactive message is higher than a recruiter choosing a candidate with 0 formal experience over hundreds of candidates with more than 0 formal experience. Trust me; even 1 year of formal product experience makes the application game 10x easier.

• There isn’t one right structure to follow when crafting a cold outreach. Don’t send an essay — this is not your cover letter. Attach your resume to the message (and your portfolio, if you have one and if it’s worthwhile). What worked for me is being my authentic self, keeping it simple, not too formal, and making the ask clear. Experiment and see what works for you. Some LinkedIn posts on cold outreach for inspiration (different perspectives):

  • “The cold email template that helped me land 6 interviews in 2 weeks” by Amani Chowdhry

  • “This candidate was sending 50 cold emails a week. But never got a single reply for a new job. So, we rebuilt his message from scratch…” by Mitch McDermott

  • “As a hiring manager who’s reviewed thousands of resumes, here’s the #1 DM mistake I see job seekers make” by Kelly Vaughn

  • “I’m a hiring manager. Here’s how to actually message me when you’re looking for a job” by Scott Graham

  Other suggestions on Reddit:

• Cold outreach is unfortunately growing out of popularity because more people are doing it. This is one of those pre-COVID and post-COVID situations. So, previously what was considered to be a proactive, excited and courageous approach is now running the risk of being seen as spammy, rude and annoying, like, “you think you’re so special trying to cut in front of the line? Apply like everyone else!”

• Cold outreach works much better when there is a common ground with the hiring manager, like similar backgrounds, interests, etc. Or, maybe you know someone from that company enough to mention their name (trusting that they’ll use positive adjectives to describe your character), but not enough for them to refer you to the role. If they are a regular writer and you have commented under their posts before, or vice versa, you can have a warm “past connection” to stand on as well. Just makes things a little less cold.

• Cold outreach is scrappy. It makes the application process less formal, non-linear and messy. Do you know what else is scrappy, informal, non-linear and messy? Start-ups. Companies with fewer than 30 people. Even up to 50 people is ok. Cold outreach works best for smaller businesses, which is just my type of environment to operate in.

• Do NOT cold outreach people asking for a referral, or asking them to find you a job in the company they work for. This is genuinely frustrating. It’s spamming. Why would anyone spend their time doing free labour for someone they don’t know to find them a job? I didn’t realise I had to write this point, but given how many LinkedIn DMs I receive from people who ask me to find them a role (i.e. “do you know any roles that may suit me? Can you send me their links so I can apply?”) or refer them to a role, I guess I need to make it clear. No one will risk their reputation by referring someone they’ve never worked with. If someone has worked with you before, they may refer you, only if you were actually great to work with. Referrals are arguably more risky than making the hiring choice, and the referrer gets almost no benefits in return.

• I helped both men and women land their first product roles. Women tend to have 4-5x more chance of success with cold outreach than men. They also tend to have a higher chance of success when asking for Zoom calls and coffee catch-ups to seek advice on transitioning to a product role. Some men called out that this is not worth their time, given how low the response rates are. It’s just the nature of how things are in life. Sorry.

• In 2023, I remember seeing a LinkedIn trend of hiring managers from hugely popular companies like Canva making posts like, “don’t send me a DM, do you know how many messages I receive every day wanting a chat so I can hire them? Just apply. If you’re not good enough to pass through the recruiter, then there is a reason for it.” Not an attitude that I like, but also understand the frustration on their part (and the desire to boast about how amazing and popular they are). I’m sure that someone even posted that they receive +200 messages every day begging for work. My only comment is that if someone is operating like the Grand Central Station, better not apply to work with them. As they said, they receive hundreds of messages, probably thousands of referrals from ex-colleagues, and tens of thousands of formal applications. And to be frank, they probably already know who to hire for the role and only told the recruiter to post the job ad to follow through the rules. I’m not saying that applying for hotshot companies is a total waste of time. But your chances of getting through the door are almost impossible. So, don’t hope for much. The best logos want to work with other people who are very experienced in other companies with the best logos. If you are reading this post, I am assuming that this is not you. Not yet.

I found two other LinkedIn posts by Shobhit Chugh, which are good reads:

• “Product Management job search takes a lot of time. Let's eliminate the biggest sources of waste.”

• “It's not about applying more. It's about being intentional.”

Before moving to the next stage of my article, I want to state the common hatred aspiring PMs feel towards recruiters. Those rude rude recruiters who won’t see the passion and potential in you, the hardworking aspiring PM who’s doing everything you can to land your first product role. How dare they?

Here’s the truth I had to learn: most people who dislike recruiters do so because they don’t understand the role of a recruiter. I was one of those. A recruiter’s job is to reduce hiring risk by selecting the most qualified candidate for the provided salary range. It’s not to give you a shot, empathise with your ambitions, or to recognise your inner potential.

Adding to that, rarely does a recruiter know enough technical details about a role to make informed decisions. Can you imagine a recruiter having a deep understanding of product, different engineering functions, marketing, customer support, UX design, UI design, operations, finance, sales, sales engineers, etc., etc.? They usually know “just enough” via following through some keywords and numbers to make decisions. This is also why AI is rapidly replacing recruiters, because it can also recognise keywords and numbers. In fact, it can make 10x better judgement (probably more) because at least it can have a deep(er) understanding of product, different engineering functions, marketing, customer support, UX design, UI design, operations, finance, sales, sales engineers, etc.

So, why won’t recruiters send you through the door? Because they want to do their job well (without spending 10 hours learning about each role they send through the door).

Interview Process

Let’s set one thing very clear: you won’t be hired for your limited experience. You will be hired for your personality traits, potential, intelligence, confidence, working style, and demonstration of the product culture. These will determine how risky a hire you are.

Before you come into the interview rounds, make sure you have a good story to tell. Your narrative, confidence and transferrable skills will matter a lot. Practise talking through why you want to be a PM, what experiences led you to a career change and your transferrable product skills. Sharing a strong narrative with confidence is impressive because it shows initiative and reveals glimpses of your character. Every hiring manager is different; some prefer to take the lead and stick closer to a formal interview structure. Others prefer to stay present and curious, asking a lot of follow-up questions to get to know you. Someone once asked me what I’ve been doing so far to learn about product, and I showed them my roadmap of learning, how I prioritised what to learn/experience, and examples of the projects I’ve taken up. It’s proof that you can take ownership, even in an ambiguous situation when you are not the expert.

I have observed that interviews flow more informally for aspiring PMs because hiring managers are more interested in assessing personality traits and culture fit than diving into technical questions and unpacking your limited product experience. Makes a lot of sense. There is a lot of opportunity in a more conversational interview, because you can take some control of the flow. The key is to do a lot of research about the company. You can jump in where appropriate and say, “that reminds me of XXX about your company. I read about it in XXX and thought XXX. How does your team do XXX?”

Be confident and optimistic. Fear blocks one’s ability to stay curious and present in the moment. I understand if you feel insecure about your experience. But you can feel secure about your capabilities (of learning and adapting quickly, of taking initiative, of working hard, etc). Be optimistic because you made it to an interview round; that’s already something to feel proud of!

If you can’t trust yourself, then no one can. Lack of confidence will reflect on your doubtful and apologetic language, stutter and repetition of words, fidgeting and facial expressions, distracted and confused mind, and panicky, reactive answers. Confidence doesn’t mean trying to prove your intelligence, showing off, or pretending like you know everything about product. It’s shocking that a lot of people believe confidence and humility can’t exist at once. They can!

Some people have a strong need to rationalise confidence. Their personalities and upbringing teach them that one needs to have X number of concrete pieces of evidence to justify their confidence. If you need to artificially create confidence, take up a product course, receive recommendations from colleagues, write down your past achievements, count the number of product books you read, etc.

Lastly, if you haven’t done so already, read How To Smash Your Product Interviews, my comprehensive guide to the different types of questions you can expect to be asked in interviews and how to prepare for them. In that article, I also write about the types of questions you want to ask in an interview and how to identify red flags in companies. Make sure you have a clear idea of what your priorities, values, red and orange flags are before going into an interview. Quoting from my comprehensive guide to product interviews:

“The reality is that you will most likely end up in a team with a few orange flags because aspiring PMs don’t have many options. You decide what you can tolerate. These questions are also there to prepare you for the situation you may be entering into (set realistic expectations). It’s totally ok to take on a role for 12 months, learn some new skills as a PM, then move on to your next adventure once you have a bit more experience.”

Iterations

Everyone’s strategy of landing their first product role will be slightly different. That’s the reality. What worked in 2023 will not work in 2025. What worked for me (considering my experience, age, background, personality, interests, and gender) may not work for you. I’m here to help you draft your own strategy. I have made the mistake of handing out every single one of my tactics in great detail to people, assuming they will get the same outcome — brings disappointment.

Start by trying something. Set a number, i.e. “Every 10 applications, I will review my approach, or resume. Every 3 interviews, I will analyse feedback to see common trends and shape my responses.” Iterate on your work like a PM.

Final Thoughts

A marketer, very senior in his career, with great capabilities, once told me that all of this is starting to appear crazy to him. The grind of career transition was making him wonder… Will others judge him for being indecisive in his career? Were his past efforts climbing up the ladder for nothing? Was the risk of starting from scratch actually worth the effort?

I remember going through a similar phase of questioning life. I asked my partner, “it’s not cool to change your mind on such an important topic. Aren’t adults supposed to know what they want from life?” He had a big smile on his face and said, “that is so innocent. Actually, adults are the worst.”

Your past efforts were not for nothing. In fact, they are a huge advantage to you moving forward. I am not a fan of product people who have always been product people. They have very clear weaknesses. People who have only done one thing in their lives, especially in one type of environment, can become quite narrow-minded and sheltered. Their brains become lazy, thinking in the same patterns. They over-optimise to thrive in one type of environment, which actually shapes their careers anti-fragile. People who haven’t failed and/or started from scratch in an area of their life (i.e. career, changing countries, etc) aren’t as adaptable and resilient. Having a wide range of experiences builds character, perspective, intuition, empathy, self-awareness, brain plasticity, curiosity, open-mindedness, creativity, problem-solving skills, and connecting the dots between different concepts. Those are exactly what you need to succeed as a PM! Plus, a messy life is a much more interesting one. Nassim Taleb would argue that being too clean and perfect leads to fragility.

You never want to enter into a company where you don’t fit or belong. Rejections are great! I learned this the hard way. People judge you within the first 5 minutes. Then, their confirmation bias kicks in via selective listening. You don’t want to be a company’s 3rd choice, and they only called you because the first two rejected them for a better offer. You won’t change their minds, blow off their hats with your exceptional work ethic. Judgements rarely change, even for product people. It’s important to be the right fit for a company, so try to not let rejections beat you down too much. A lot of the time, it’s a bullet dodged. Some companies that rejected me over the past 5 years shut down (nature of startups) or went through mass redundancies. Some, I later found out from the great vine, had a toxic culture. The best career strategy, no matter your experience and situation, is to be in the right place and right time.

Best of luck!

All the images I use have been generated using deepai.org (the pop art generator). 🦸‍♀️

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If you haven’t done so, check out the trail overview before you dive in.

Day 1: Cockle Creek to South Cape Rivulet

11km, 4 hours

We were dropped off by the shuttle bus at 3 pm and had a late lunch (bread buns with ham & cheese) before our hike at 3.30 pm. The shuttle bus ride from Par Avion took about 2 hours.

We look too happy to be tortured for 7 days. LOL.

The trail was wet due to the consistent rain over the few weeks leading up to the hike. I had a ton of excitement and a bit of anxiety, as we hadn’t hiked for over 4 days before and only had day-hiking experience in the Tasmanian wilderness.

We were able to maintain a consistent pace throughout the track, which began with a forest walk, then some boardwalk in a rolling plain surrounded by alpine bush, and back into the forest.

I had an incident when a wasp flew into my shirt from the gap between my collar and neck and stung me three times. Lesson learned: put your collar up as you hike.

This photo was taken 4 days after the sting.

Going back into the forest section, we came across some mud and a bit of climbing. As we began the trail late, we pushed to arrive at the campsite before sunset through the ups and downs (rushing caused David’s calf to be hurt, so he wasn’t happy).

We eventually descended and walked along the beach. The old way curved to the left along the rocks (dodgy, as they get covered under water in high tide) and the new way curves to the right (much safer to follow).

The campsite is on the right before the inlet. Some spots are on sand, and some are on grass. It’s a lovely campsite with a pretty sunset view. We saw three pademelons at this campsite.

There is a long drop available. If you go up the inlet, it widens to a bigger creek, which is lovely to swim in. This is also where you can collect water. Dinner was the leftover bread rolls with ham & cheese.

Day 2: South Cape Rivulet to Granite Beach

9km, 10 hours

Hardest day on the trail (unless you love hiking through hip-deep mud).

Tip: start this day very early, so you won’t have to rush leading up to sunset.

The day begins with an inlet crossing.

Tip: check the tides before crossing the inlet. Not recommended to cross during heavy rain when the inlet is swollen and up to your chest, as strong currents are reported during such times. At low tide, the water should be around your ankles, so safe to cross with your hiking boots.

On that day, the high tide was at 4 am, and the low tide was at 7 pm. We were a bit of chicken to not cross at 8 am and get an early start, as the tides would have been ok then. We crossed at 10am instead. Freezing water woke me up. Low current. Butt-deep water for me (160cm) and thigh-deep for David (185cm).

First bit after the inlet crossing. 30 minutes before we encounter our mud adventure.

Not joking, this day was a nightmare. Very technical ascent through the rainforest with a ton of mud up to the knees. Slippery! Hiking poles saved us a few times from falling. Without the mud, the view was magical. Giant trees with roots extending downhill for metres and metres, rich shades of greenery growing over those roots, and fungus in unique colours. It was a scene from a fairytale, but we were sweating through our asses.

I tried to take pictures, but nothing could capture our struggle on this terrain. When the mud reached above the knees, it was raining on us and no longer safe to pull our cameras out.

Being short, I hated every time I came across another fallen log (chest height for me). I heard from the other women on the trail that they dropped their packs a lot, pushed and pulled their packs over some of the logs and tree roots. I was very stubborn to not take my bag off for the entire time so exhausted myself on the way up.

We were really hopeful that once we got over the ascent and reached the 3km flat section, we could take a break from the difficult terrain, have some lunch, and then start the descent. Little did we know that the standing puddles of mud were worse.

I can’t stress the psychological/mental element of hiking. It’s important to stay positive even when things don’t work out the way you hope.

Well, when I put my hiking pole in to test the depth of the mud and saw it almost disappear, the realisation kicked in. I felt sick with anxiety (as I didn’t know where I could put my foot) and disappointment. We also couldn’t have our full lunch or a good rest because mud and constant stop-start rain made it hard to put our bags down.

The next 3kms were a tragic comedy. It was horrible in the sense that stepping anywhere was extremely hard. Once you step into calf-deep mud, the suction of the mud on your foot is so strong that it’s an effort to lift your foot back up. Leeches were latching onto our legs.

Two steps - breathe - look around, test depth - leap - two steps - “sht!” “argh! crp!” - repeat the cycle.

I’ll call out that the Tasmanian National Parks put up a sign telling people to not avoid the mud, and step through it, as otherwise going around damages the plants. I’m not sure if they are aware that the mud was waist-deep in some sections and anything above knee height was impossible to step through. People have tried to go around the mud, bush-bashing, and widening the mud for their own safety. We were trying to follow their steps and laughing at ourselves. I guess some people pay for a mud bath - we got it for free. Tasmanian National Parks should really put boards through this section! Did I mention that gaiters are a must-have for this trail?

Being exhausted is one of the biggest risks for hikers on technical terrain. When exhausted, you lose focus and balance; that’s when the mistakes happen. I stepped into a mud pond up to my left thigh and it took David 10 minutes to rescue me.

First, he tried to pull me out, but the mud was so strong that it hurt my foot. Bad idea. Then he grabbed the mini shovel we brought for the bathroom matters and began to dig the mud around my foot. That worked (alternative use cases of the object). At that point (and knowing how late time was getting), I was on the verge of crying.

About 20 minutes later, after attempting to take another leap to a side trail, I slipped and fell into the mud pond sidewards. My body sank and my face remained outside — gave me a shock. That’s how I got a big bruise on my left arm. I panicked and tried wiggling myself out of the mud, which made me sink even more. I eventually unclipped my bag and David pulled me up. I was wet, cold, disgusting, shocked, confused and a little scared. I still had a sense of humour, so I laughed…and began crying. Yay SCT!

He was like, “young lady resting in the mud and crying, while I’m still working, shovelling the mud.”

Once the drama was over and we made it to the end of the flat section, we had a short break with some food. We were half-starved, hoping to arrive at camp for dinner.

Tip: for the difficult days of the trail, pack higher energy and some sugary food. It will cheer you up and help you push on.

Steep descent from there into Granite Beach, which wasn’t very hard and definitely not as muddy as what we’ve been through, but after the build-up of fatigue, it felt like a bad drag. We had minor slips (purely from exhaustion and losing focus) but no falls or anything serious.

Note: two days ago, a lady got airlifted out of this section after a fall and concussion. She was also fatigued and lost focus.

We arrived at the campsite around 8 pm, had quick dinners and laid down in the tent. My legs were aching from fighting off the constant suction of the muddy terrain. I genuinely doubted if we could finish this trail that night but no way we were going back on that trail. I was also anxious after hearing groups coming from Melaleuca talking about how bad the Iron Bounds was (even higher climb and “very muddy, slippery, took us 11 hours” etc etc).

Note: Iron Bounds is easier to tackle when going Northbound. The trail is nowhere close to being as muddy as this day, even after rainfall, which is what we experienced. The main challenge with Iron Bounds is the constant climb for half of the day. We were trained for uphills and climbing. But we were not ready for deep muddy terrain.

Tip: at this campsite, there is a waterfall to collect water and you can scramble down to the bottom for a lovely shower on the pebbles. It’s a great spot.

Day 3: Granite Beach to Osmiridium Beach

12kms, 7 hours

Scrambled down from the waterfall onto the pebbles (be careful here!), we began our day along the beach. Some nice forest walk afterwards. Definitely an easier day but yesterday’s fatigue carried on, so we moved slower than our usual pace.

After the forest, there is a rocky section descending to Surprise Bay with a rope. It was a bit of an abseiling, and then we crossed the inlet (ankle deep) and paused for lunch.

Gorgeous beach and seeing nobody around, I felt like we were on an isolated island or the Jurassic World. Beach walk and back into the forest.

Note: Surprise Bay seemed like a cute campsite. It would have been a nice spot to camp if we were able to push on.

Climbing up to the forest from the beach.

Heading towards the Osmiridium Beach, we came across a bit of boarded walk and a bit of mud (ankle and calf deep). It was not a difficult walk and mostly remained flat with some uphill sections. What made this section frustrating was the overgrowth. Cutty grass and spiky bush chest height and some even taller than me. The trail progressively got worse and worse, as we could not see where we were going, just pushing through the bush (even got off the trail a bit actually). Never thought it would be so tiring but the alpine bush is strong and we wrestled for an hour. At one point I said, “if we just stop here, no one would be able to see us within this bush; we could grow leaves and become a small tree ourselves.” I’m dramatic sometimes.

Tip: I really should not be saying this but saw two women on the trail with booty shorts. No. Please don’t. The bush really ruins your skin. Sunnies are highly recommended to protect your eyes.

Note: someone without hiking poles reported that there were a few muddy bits up to their upper thighs which they were not pleased to find out. We must have gone around them, used side trails, or skipped over.

There is a little bridge along this trail with a tiny stream of running water. It does not look like the best spot to collect water but you will need that water. We made the mistake of thinking the campsite would have a water source, but when we arrived, we realised it was stagnant and poor water. We had to use filtration.

Note: make sure you have enough water for the following day. During the 9km following the trail, there is no suitable place to collect water.

Osmiridium Beach campsite is quite nice. There is a junction where you’ll need to turn left, more bush bashing with challenging navigation, then into a forest, creek crossing (ankle deep) and there it is.

We were glad to arrive at 5.30 pm. It gave us time to chat with the other hikers on the trail, collect useful insights, share stories, take a walk down to the beach (can’t swim there due to blue bottle jellyfish — they’re nasty), put our feet up, have a warm long dinner and take a good night’s rest.

Day 4: Osmiridium Beach to Little Deadmans

15km, 10 hours (1 hour full lunch break and 45 minutes at the boat crossing)

We began our track with bush wrestling until we made our way back into the forest. This was a relief. Lots of ups and downs throughout the day, some within the green forest and some over sandy bits. There is a bridge somewhere in the middle with nice stairs (a pleasant surprise).

Note: the running water under this bridge is salty from the beach. We heard that if you walk up the stream you can collect fresh water. We tried to do that as we were really thirsty, but it’s quite up the stream (and the water was already at David’s knees), so we gave up.

Overall, it was not a difficult walk, but we were out of water (our mistake from the previous afternoon) and it was a warm day. We were sweating and very thirsty for 9 kms. We could not even eat due to the thirst.

Note: if you are not confident of your water sources, try to have an alternative dinner that does not include water for cooking. Some of the water sources on this trail are influenced by the rainfall. A few days of sunshine can dry up the small streams and a few days of rainfall can create multiple new streams along the way.

There were lots of logs to jump over, branches to duck down (David crawled under) and a few bits were confusing to navigate due to overgrowth.

We saw a baby Carpenter snake on one of the sandy lookouts. Being thirsty put me on autopilot, and I saw two footprints in the sand, so I followed them. A very steep sliding sand and found myself at the bottom of a non-existent trail. It took me ages to get back up. We found out later that another thirsty couple got lost down there before us as they were rushing towards the water source.

We came to the boat crossing with stories from people about how they were lucky to have somebody on the other side, or how there were two boats already on their side. We were not one of those ‘lucky’ people on the trail.

This is a section with 3 boats for hikers to row over to the other side. Two boats always have to be on one side and one boat on the other. Very rarely somebody does not follow this rule (i.e. probably during a storm when it may be unsafe to make two trips). In that case, you may need to swim. If you are in a hurry, it’s swimmable but only in very good conditions (sunny and low tide), otherwise wait until somebody else comes back from the other side.

If there are two boats at your side, then you just row one boat over. If there is only one boat at your side, you need to make a trip to the other side, then tie two boats together to row the other boat back to the other side. Then row yourself back over. There are life jackets and rowing spoons/oars/blades (whatever they are called that you row with).

Note: do NOT cross this section during a storm with high tide. It’s actually dangerous (strong currents occur) and rowing even in calm waters is quite hard. This is another section of the trail with prior drowning cases.

I think people don’t talk about this part of the trail enough. This was tough and frustrating. Rowing a wide boat is very different from rowing a single boat or kayaking. Also, this boat set-up was heavy and a bit dodge (i.e. handles kept on coming off). There was a bit of a current happening and it was low tide which did not help our situation. When it’s low tide, the boats are up on the sand and dragging them down to the water is hard.

I love kayaking and had the chance to do some weekend kayaking in the Northern Beaches for a few months. I was of no use in this situation. David did 95% of the work and I only added additional weight for him to pull. This was just a difficult old boat to row across. We spent about 45 minutes on this section.

Then came the 4km beach walk. Lovely! Long and easy. We raced to the end as we knew that there would be a water source available. Saw a few baby seagulls along the way which were so cute.

At the end, the beach and a water stream connect into an inlet. We both drank a litre of water in one go. This was a perfect spot to have lunch. We swam at the beach, set our camping chairs, had lunch and rested for an hour.

The hike to Little Deadmans was easy from there. You’ll step back in the forest and go over slight up and downs. In the swampy section, we saw a medium-sized tiger snake. It was more scared than us.

You’ll come across a few streams and creeks to cross where you can collect more water. They’re very pretty as short rest stops. One has a tight rope you can hold onto for balance.

You’ll come back out to a beach section and reach the campsite after walking on the pebbles. There is another stream there to collect water too.

It was a fine day and the dinner was yummy, but when we laid down in the tent, I was anxious about the following day, Iron Bounds. We’ve been asking every hiker we see along the way about their experience. The average completion time was 10-12 hours (one outlier of 9 hours, one outlier of 7 hours, and a few people who couldn’t complete the trail stayed overnight at the emergency campsites there). We heard some nasty things about the elevation, very steep climb, lots of mud, very watery and slippery and overall an absolute killer, especially when raining. That night it was raining heavily and I had a short cry from anxiety.

Day 5: Little Deadmans to Louise River (the Iron Bounds)

12.5km, 12 hours (900m ascend/descend)

Despite bringing a solar charger to this trip, the start-stop of rain and travelling in the forest didn’t allow us to charge properly. David’s phone was flat and my phone was at 30% in the morning.

We began the day with a forest stroll (about 2kms). Constant uphill but nothing steep. A hundred different logs to jump over or crawl under. Honestly, by Day 5, regular hurdles just become your norm.

A few streams to cross over. Lots of new streams appeared due to heavy rain. As you climb up, you’ll notice a lot of rocky sections which have become waterways for the rain. Some of these rocks and slippery to climb on, some are not. Best to check.

There were two bigger stream crossings which have turned into waterfalls. These became very slippery with the rain. I slipped and fell on my right arm (got my second bruise). If my bag wasn’t there to cushion me, that fall could have ended as a disaster. I crawled out of there. A lady in front of us slipped and fell on the second crossing.

From there, the ascent became steeper and more technical with tree roots and lots of tall rocks to climb on. This is difficult for a short person like me. I used a lot of my upper body strength. In some places, I felt like I was either doing weighted chin-ups or weighted rock climbing. For people with longer legs, you’d be expecting to do a lot of high-stretched lunges. Overall, the ascend was not muddy and definitely not as difficult as what the other people had told us (even with the constant showers during the day).

On this trail, we passed two emergency campsites (Lower Iron Bounds Campsite and Mid Iron Bounds Campsite). They seemed like ok spots to camp at (no water source though) with 2-3 tent spots. Maybe a good option for people going Southbound (or if you just want to tackle Iron Bounds in two halves). I understand that most people just want to get it over and done with.

This photo is a real representation of how we felt during the climb up.

As we got closer to the top, the trail became very narrow and rocky. We took a lot of rest as we climbed. It also got cold suddenly. I began having trouble completing fine motor actions with my fingers (but we were so focused on climbing that I just assumed it was from how strongly I was gripping the rocks and my hiking poles).

Tip: if you don’t have the best blood circulation, bring a glove for the Iron Bounds. We made the mistake of not packing any, as we did not consider frostbite to be an issue on this trail.

Note: lots of leeches along the way. David had to crawl around a lot, so he got the leeches on his face and neck.

By the time we got to the top and exited the rainforest (around 2.15-2.30 pm), the weather closed in and it got much colder. We walked outside and I was ready to throw my hands in the air to call it “we’re on top of the Iron Bounds!” But a few seconds later a powerful storm hit us. I bent halfway down with that hit, then fell on my knees.

The storm came in so suddenly and it slammed us to the ground. I could hardly lift my face up to find David. He was looking around so confused. Don’t underestimate this section under bad weather. It can get really dangerous.

Him: “Go back!”

Me: “I can’t!”

Him: “There is no trail here! I can’t see the way!”

My instincts were telling me that this was not a 5 minute storm. This may continue for the next few hours, or even longer. If we went back, I knew that we would have to camp there. We dragged our bodies towards each other. David lost his bag’s rain cover in the storm. I was close to losing my hiking poles (but they were tight around my wrists). We got on our hands and knees, then laid flat on the rocks. That section gave David a big bruise on his left arm and left hip (where he hit the ground from the storm).

Pinned down on rocks that dug into my skin and watching bits and pieces of the bush being blown away, the grey clouds above us and feeling the rain, my mind froze into silence. David said my name a few times to grab my attention, which is when I looked to my right.

Him: “Are you cold? Hold my hands.”

Me: “Hands! Hands! Argh hands!” He touched my hands and I cried out in pain. “No, no, hands, they hurt!”

Him: “Sh*t. Close your hands, Doa. Can you close your hands?”

I could not close my hands. They were doing a pathetic bend at most. He grabbed my hands to warm them, and I cried from the pain. We stayed there for about 10 minutes, and David tried to pull my focus so I didn’t just shout out single words, but speak in full sentences. Soon, we realised that this storm was not going to stop or even slow down, and we were running the risk of hypothermia or frostbite on my hands.

It took us a bit of an effort to go on our hands and knees again, then we dragged our bodies (half bent down, half crawled) on the trail to find an exit. The relief of entering the next rainforest! There was a bridge over a waterfall, and that’s where we stopped to catch our breath and slow down our heartbeats.

Tip: come on the trail with a potential number of emergency cases planned and what you would do in those situations. You don’t want to figure out what to do about frostbite when you are in the superficial frostbite stage.

My hands were swollen (red and white) in so much pain (burning warm) and they were not able to close. My core was also getting cold. David tried to force my fingers to close which resulted in another cry. About a few minutes of confusion and trying different things (my brain was not functioning properly, it was only thinking about the burn of my hands), David pulled out his socks and slid my hands inside the socks.

Note: the treatment for frostbite includes covering up the frozen area with clothing or body parts to rewarm. To prevent frostbite when you are getting cold, wiggle your toes and fingers. Don’t force heating by heat pads, pouring hot water and rubbing in later stages of frostbite. Try to not walk on frostbite feet/toes.

After my mittens, we had some lollies and waited for another 10-15 minutes. That’s when I felt like my brain was more aware (working) and my fingers were able to close halfway, which was enough to get a loose grip of the hiking poles. It was 3.30 pm.

We came across the last emergency campsite there. This was a very exposed and wet area with so much wind. I don’t recommend anyone to use this spot unless they absolutely have to.

A short walk through the rainforest led us to the descent. This is not a difficult descent. Some of it was boarded, some had rocks as stairs, and some were a bit sharper in descent with small rocks (which aren’t good for feet and ankles) but still not too difficult. However, it was very exposed, falling would have caused serious injuries in some sections and we were attacked by the strong winds and rain. I thought it was hail for a while; that’s how hard and forceful the raindrops were hitting us).

We were very wobbly and half-bent as we hiked down the descent. For the next few hours (which felt like forever), we were in a rhythm of ‘8 quick steps forward — duck & hold steady for 3 secs — check safety — push on.’ Somewhere along here my phone died too.

About halfway down, I was finally able to hold my hiking poles properly under the socks and my core was warmer. However, being thrown around by the wind and not using hiking poles properly on uneven grounds for a few hours gave me foot pain. My right foot was aching about 5/10 and as we continued with the descent, the ache continued rising to 6.5/10.

Rest stop about 2/3rd into the descent (where we could see our campsite in the horizon and were a bit sheltered from the wind) for 15 minutes. That’s when we had a good late lunch. Would have been about 5.30 pm. Seeing our campsite on the horizon, moving out of the strong winds and eating a bit of food made me feel much better. Foot ache went down to 4/10.

Tip: move your snacks and quick food into a pocket of your bag that’s very easy to access. On very challenging terrain and steep ascends/descents, it’s easy to ignore nutrition as you want to keep pushing. These are also the worst times to keep yourself starved of energy.

Just before our phones died. No pretty pictures — just a girl who’s smiling, soaked and grateful to get down the Iron Bounds with all of her fingers.

We slowed down as we got closer to our campsite to not aggravate my foot any further. It was a 7.10 am-7.15 pm day. Louise River Campsite is pretty, but a bit small/crammed and does not have good spots to put up your tent due to the tree roots. There are spots to camp on the other side of the river as well. Unfortunately, we didn’t cross the river that night because our energy was drained.

Tip: cross the river and camp on the other side for both Northbound and Southbound travellers. Cold water will feel nice on your legs at the end of a hard day. For Northbound travellers, the following day will have two other river deep crossings which take a long time, so it will be one less river to cross. For Southbound travellers, river crossings slow down everything and you really want to start your Iron Bounds day as early as you can without wasting any time.

Tip: it’s a good idea to either take a rest day, a short day, or a late start of your day after tackling the Iron Bounds.

Day 6: Louisa River to Freney Lagoon

18km, 8 hours (1 hour spent on river crossings)

We had a nice, slow morning, as we deserved. Hot breakfast for the first time on the trail. I’ll note that the night before, my right hand remained swollen, unable to complete fine motor movements well, and very sensitive with pins and needles. In the morning, I was able to make a fist again, but my hand was not 100% recovered.

Showers and mild winds throughout the day. We were on the trail at 10 am, crossing another freezing cold Louisa River. It was wide, up to my upper thighs, but not too challenging as there was a rope to hold onto.

Nice forest walk, then came the Louisa Creek. Strong current and waist-deep for me (probably due to the non-stop rains). There was a rope to hold onto, but it was over my head, making this crossing a bit more challenging.

Note: there was a sign on the other side of the creek that warns hikers to not cross if the water is above knee level. Another place for drowning incidents in the past. One of the hikers the day before lost her grip on the rope and got carried with the current 2 metres down. Her gear got all wet and she was very cold.

More forest walk and some boardwalk walk, then came the Faraday Creek crossing. At this point, I was sick of crossing rivers/creeks and being constantly cold. My right hand began experiencing issues with movement again, but this time, we were more careful about avoiding frostbite. Similar strong current and waist-deep water here, but the rope is easier to hold onto.

The rest of the walk was rolling hills, slight ups and downs through long tundra, some boardwalks and some rocky paths, which were so lovely. It felt like we got an ice bath treatment and an easier walk after the tough Iron Bounds day. The rocky path is exposed, and having wind and rain wasn’t great, but I suspect on a calm day, this walk would be fast and fun to push through.

Note: be careful on some of the boarded wooden sections that are underwater. They are very slippery. I heard of other hikers who had a bad fall on these bits.

From the Buoy Creek campsite, it’s mostly a beach walk. We found the Point Eric campsite as well and continued to the Freney Lagoon campsite. Nice campsite but a bit windy. The last 1km I was feeling my foot again to a 6/10 ache.

Day 7: Freney Lagoon to Melaleuca

12.5km, 5 hours (45 minutes lost from being lost on the trail)

We woke up at about 5.15 am and left at about 6 am (phones continued to be dead) so we could make it to our 10 am flight.

There were two issues with this ambitious plan though. Firstly, my foot began the day already at a 2/10 ache. Secondly, it was pouring rain with heavy winds which blocked our vision and we got lost on the beach by missing the red arrow sign on the pebbles.

When we finally got back on the trail, I was still extremely determined to race back to Melaleuca and ready to fight the weather conditions. This part of the track is actually very easy. It’s boarded (80%), tundra and rolling plains. However, about halfway through, the weather began to beat us down (at times making it difficult to balance and stand up). Walking really fast also tired out my foot very quickly, so 7km in and I was at a 5/10 ache.

We were forced to slow down dramatically when the pain got to 7.5/10. I was using the hiking poles as crutches to complete this track. We got in about 11 am soaked all the way through and cold. I was sad thinking that we missed the flight. However, on arrival, we were told that due to terrible weather, the flight was delayed to 3 pm and the following day’s flights were cancelled.

I cannot even describe the emotions going through me when I saw the Melaleuca signs. Suddenly, all my pain disappeared. I was incredibly relieved and happy.

Me: “Oh, we made it.”

Him: “Yeah, we’re here.”

Me: “How did we make it? How did we do this?”

Him: “I don’t know. You’re just a crazy girl who finds 7-day tracks to walk on.”

Me: “Oh…oh, we made it. Oh, I can’t believe it.”

Him: “I can’t believe anything that happened in the last 7 days. Feels like a dream.”

Me: “It’s over. They’re going to pick us up. We’re going to have a hotel bed tonight.”

We walked up to one of the Walker’s Huts and found two other cold hikers sheltering. We had some laughter, some chit-chat about the trail, shared learnings and waited for the 3 pm flight. I got inside my sleeping bag to warm up and had lunch. My foot was much better after the rest.

It was my first time in a small aircraft. Very cool. We enjoyed the scenic flight (wish I could take some photos) back to Hobart.

At Par Avion, we called a taxi to our motel, took a long shower and a hot bath. We ordered 2 double patty burgers, a large milkshake and 3 sides to share. I don’t think I ever ate this much in one go before. We demolished everything.

My hair after a week of tight braids.

Following Days in Hobart

We spent the 30th and 31st of December, and the 1st and morning of the 2nd of January in Hobart, mostly inside our motel, on the bed. We did some writing, reading, watching the tennis and Indiana Jones movies. We could not help but excessively talk about the hike and look through our pictures of the hike.

Drying our gear outside the motel room.

I took some short walks to test out the foot and booked a physio in case it’s something serious. We Ubered ourselves to cafes and restaurants. We had excessive hunger for the first 3 days after the hike. I was comfortably consuming double the amount of calories I usually have and still leaving the meals not feeling full.

Back in Sydney, my foot was only feeling about 1.5/10 and I could easily walk to the physio and navigate myself around the city. Overuse flexor hallucis brevis (left arch of my right foot) — nothing serious but need to take a week off from running (maybe two depending on how I feel).

Additional Thoughts

• Flights may be cancelled/delayed according to the weather conditions. Make sure you bring enough emergency food to cater for this situation.

• Talk to the other hikers on the trail. Don’t be shy. Trail conditions can change overnight, so asking people coming from the opposite side about what to expect and where to collect water can be very helpful.

• Be spontaneous. You are out in the nature. If the mother nature wants you to cross a river, do it. If the tide is up to your neck, then wait until it’s safe for you to cross. Drowning incidents have happened in the past and there are warning signs along the trail for it. Don’t force your perfect plan if the weather or trail conditions are not allowing you to proceed. There is nothing wrong with taking a rest day.

• Check yourself for leeches before going to sleep. You can remove leeches by holding them, twisting and pulling. If you light a match they will let go naturally.

• On most campsites, you’ll notice ropes hanging from branch to branch. You can use those ropes or tree branches to hang your wet clothes up.

• Do NOT rush. This trail involves steep descent, uneven ground and overgrowth. It’s either wet or muddy which creates slippery conditions. Move at a comfortable speed and get plenty of rest during the day, even if it means you arrive at the next campsite a little bit later than you had hoped.

• It’s very reasonable to take a rest day on the trail. It will help your body to recover, reduce the risk of injury and enjoy nature a bit more.

• You cannot take a gas canister on the plane to/from Melaleuca. You can purchase one from Par Avion. Plenty of people also left their full gas canisters with the rangers in Melaleuca if you want to take one.

• If you stay a day in Melaleuca, you can explore the Deny King Heritage Museum.

• At Melaleuca you can either camp or use one of the two walker’s huts (4 beds available in each). The walker’s huts will have a hiking logbook, magazines, books and sudoku.

• If you still have tons of energy after the hike, you can continue on to the Port Davey track (takes about 5 days going North). In that case, you may choose to rest at the walker’s hut for a day or two before your next hike. You can also get food dropped off by Par Avion to pick up in Melaleuca.

• Don’t make tight bookings around this hike (i.e. book your flight back to Sydney 1-2 days after the hike). We met with people who completed this track a day later than what they originally planned and weather conditions can really impact pick up / drop off from Melaleuca.

• If you are not from Tasmania and your hiking experience is limited to the other states, you might get a bit shocked. Make sure you study the trail very well before attempting.

Questions: if you have any questions about my notes, drop a comment and I’ll reply.

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Overview

• Length: 86km, one-way.

• Duration: 6 days (if you want to pace through), 7 days (most fit hikers follow this option), or 8 days (if you want/need to take a rest day).

• Seasonality: this hike is in an alpine region with rapid weather changes, and weather (rainfall) impacts the difficulty and safety of the hike (river crossings, depth of mud, etc.). Technically, you can complete this hike during November-March, but I would recommend aiming for a sunny and dry week. We hiked in late December.

• Grade: 5 (very tough!), considered to be in the top 10 (arguably the 6th) toughest long hikes in AU.

• Terrain: deep mud, waterways with running water, excessive overgrowth (with spiky plants), lots of fallen trees (logs to climb over), beach walk (with inlet crossings & peddles), steep ascend/descend in rainforest, rocks, river/creek crossings (on foot & via a rowing boat), and some boarded walk (beginning & end of the trail).

• Skills Required: scrambling, steep climbing, steep ascent, muddy terrain hikes, exposed high wind alpine hikes, and rowing a boat.

• Climate: Alpine climate (weather changes rapidly). Expect heavy rain and strong winds during the summer. When the sun is out, it feels about 20 degrees. Towards the top of the iron bounds, frostbite may become a risk.

• Animals on Trail: we came across cute pademelons, baby seagulls, red bellied parrots, pied oystercatchers along the beach, baby carpenter snake, tiger snake, wasps, a bunch of small harmless spiders, a lot of leeches and a lot of mozzies.

• HIGHLY recommend you bring PLD (personal locator device / emergency beacon), gaiters and hiking poles (for your safety). Most people would argue that you should not be doing this hike without those 3 items. Find our full gear list at the bottom of the page.

• Community Support: FB PAGE LINK & https://www.alltrails.com/trail/australia/tasmania/south-coast-track-full-walk

• Popularity: you can encounter between 4-12 people each day on the trail. There were two days that we encountered nobody.

• Accessibility: this is a point-to-point track. The Cockle Creek end (south) can be accessed by a shuttle mini bus (https://www.twe.travel/), and the Melaleuca end (north) can be accessed by a small airplane (https://www.paravion.com.au/). Both shuttle mini bus (2 hours drive) and airplane (1 hour flight) departs from Hobart. At Cockle Creek, you can camp. At Melaleuca, you can either camp or use one of the two walker’s huts (4 beds available in each). Going Southbound is the most popular option. However, going Northbound will be a bit easier to complete, so I would recommend that to first-timers.

Packing Guide

I would not strictly follow what we took on this trip. If we were to do it again, there would be a few adjustments we would make to this plan.

We double-packed a few of the toiletries, I took too many undies, we never had a fly issue (so the nets were useless), never used plastic cups, knives or plates, and a few other things which were ‘nice to haves’ and not that necessary. We also want to swap a few pieces of equipment to find lighter versions.

I am 160cm and weigh 49kg. In retrospect, going out with 15kg was too much for me (almost a third of my weight). Carrying a heavy pack contributes to exhaustion but also increases your risk of injury and foot overuse, which are annoying. Next time, I’ll be aiming for 12kg instead.

I did not unpack what was in our first aid kit, but next time we want to be taking less band aids (as we did not use any on this trip) and some strapping/sleeves in case of injury.

Missing items: gloves, Panadol, tape for repairing tent/blow-up things

Food Guide

I think we were spot on with this, except for the emergency pack. I really recommend that you carry a full day’s worth of emergency supplies. Don’t skimp on emergency food as we did. The South Coast Track can be the trail where you have to take a rest day. It could be from injury, exhaustion, or really bad weather conditions.

By giving you the info below, I feel that it will help you to do a comparison.

We both lost weight on the trail. To maintain our weights, we would have to carry much more weight, which we were not willing to do. Instead, we loaded up on carbs before the hike and treated ourselves after the hike.

My general maintenance at the time was 1500c (24 years old, 160cm, 49kg, 23.5% body fat), and David was at 1800c as an almost 35-year-old, about 185cm (on a calorie deficit, which was a part of his body composition plan for the year).

Each day, I aimed to eat about 1400c, and David aimed for about 1650c. He was ok eating less, as he said that he had a higher body fat % in comparison (male vs female).

Our total food weighed 10kg, which can certainly be optimised. I did some research after the hike and found alternative foods with higher calorie counts and lower weights. I’d also be bringing some electrolyte sachets on our next long hike, as I had some cramping in my foot along the way.

Breakfast: powdered smoothie packs from Backcountry Cuisine, different flavour each day. The best breakfast! They are so yummy, the mocha flavour helped my coffee withdrawal symptoms, 400c, gets some liquid in your mouth at the start of the day, and very light to carry.

• We both had one packet each: mocha, banana, mixed berry and chocolate flavours.

• This can also be a good lunch option.

• We tried Backcountry Cuisine’s cooked breakfast for one morning as well to add variety. It was very nice to have a warm breakfast one morning. It was more filling. It weighed more and took up more space in our bags. Cooking and cleaning in the morning takes time (although next time, I am planning to eat from the packet by shaping it into a bowl, rather than carrying a plate and a bowl). I wasn’t sold on it (won’t swap it for my smoothie). However, for a tough hike that’s 7 days long, I’ll buy it again to have variety on one morning (probably after the toughest day as a reward).

Lunch:

• I had a chief meat bar, cliff oat bar (250c) & about half dried fruit (mango/apple alternating).

• David had 1 chief meat bar, All Natural Bakery’s oat bar (430c) & about half fried fruit (mango/apple alternating).

• On days 5-7, we swapped dried fruit with lollies (1 pack snakes & 1 pack dinosaurs).

• I liked our lunches because I really miss the taste of meat on long hikes (and I think Chief bars are yummy). This lunch contains fibre, carbs, sugars and a fine amount of protein.

• David got sick of his oat bars after the first 4 days. They also weigh more.

Dinner: we shared Backcountry Cuisine’s gourmet meals. New flavour each night, they were delicious.

Emergency: 2 powdered smoothies, 2 tuna packets, dried apples.

Tips: Seal each day’s portion of food and mark it as “Day 1” etc. Bring a separate “no smell” seal bag for rubbish. You won’t have to hang your food off a branch to try to protect it from animals (mostly rats) stealing.

Training Guide

Training is a must, and there are a few reasons for it.

Training for safety is the most important reason, so you don’t get injured. Most people get this part right.

Training for enjoyment is more challenging to get right, and while it’s not a must, I view it as highly important. You really don’t want to be on a 7-day hike suffering every day, dragging your feet from point A to point B, exhausted. What is the point of being out in nature, exploring lands that most people don’t have access to, if you can’t even laugh, enjoy, and appreciate the beauty that you are within?

We train so we can enjoy every day on a hike. However, one year of training only got us to have fun on 2/7 days, be ok on 3/7 days and feel exhausted on 2/7 days. David’s calf was a bit off (no injury), and I left with a minor overuse injury on the right foot (healed with 1-2 weeks of rest - I began running again at week 3).

An observation I made on the trail was that almost everyone we’ve seen on the trail had more than 3 years of intense hiking experience.

Basics

Getting ‘hiking fit’ and building up experience in hiking can be underestimated by a regular fit person who goes to the gym and runs. I’ve seen half-marathon runners struggle with grade 4 hikes in Tasy. Trust me; hiking is different. Just like how you can’t grab a basketball player and throw them in a volleyball match without any training, you also can’t grab any generic fit person and throw them out on the South Coast Track.

For this track, we made sure to…

• Have done multiple multi-day hikes

• Have done at least one 4-5 day hike

• Can hike with a bag weight +2/+3kg heavier than your planned weight

• Have completed other Grade 5 hikes before (can be day-long ones)

• Can put up a tent, cook, and pack your bag under any condition; have a regular routine we know so well that we can do it in the dark, during a storm, when completely exhausted — under any condition.

• Strength training (upper body & lower body); I had 2 lower and 2 upper body days

  • For the first time, I believed that doing leg days in the gym wasn’t enough and felt proud of pushing myself for upper body days. This trail gets you to climb (over tree roots, giant logs and rocks), especially if you are my size.

• Cardiovascular training; I finished the year being able to run 10kms which was good (but the fitter you are, the more enjoyable this hike is going to be); I went on 4x 6km runs a week

• Mobility, balance & flexibility

  • About 25% of people I’ve seen on the trail had some form of strapping/bandaging/sleeves around their feet, ankles, calves or knees. Steep ascents are tiring, but steep, slippery, muddy descents can be dangerous and very uncomfortable for your joints/tendons

  • This part of the training isn’t very fun/cool, and it’s also one that a lot of people miss/underestimate, especially if they didn’t have many injuries before; I’ve been burned in the past, so now I have 2 short mobility & balance days per week and try to incorporate stretches as much as I can

Terrain

• Mud training; sounds funny, but please go find some knee-deep mud (or more) because the mud on the South Coast Track left us mildly traumatised (it’s a killer); unmaintained trails over a wet winter might be your best option.

• Ruined trails with lots of fallen logs; sounds funny again, but I’m sure that I jumped/climbed over 100 logs and crawled under countless times with a heavy pack; this is tiring, frustrating, and I felt like I was becoming a hurdler by the end of the track.

• Basic bouldering/clambering/scrambling; not as important, especially if you are tall, but having done a few scrambling trails will really help you.

• Steep ascents & descents.

• Grade 5 hikes; if possible, go to Tasmania (grading system is different in other states)

• Beach & pebble walking; while this is not difficult, I still recommend that you do a hike which involves these terrains

• This trail has a section where you have to row an old and very heavy boat multiple times; make sure you are comfortable with this

• This trail has multiple deep river crossings; make sure you are comfortable with this

Climate

• Alpine hiking; to get used to the sudden weather changes, heavy rain, heavy wind and the cold; go to a mountain (ideally go to Tasmania)

• Hiking & setting up the tent under heavy rain; it’ll suck if the first time you try to set up a tent is when you’re on the SCT

Please note that we were not experienced hikers while training for the SCT. We got serious about hiking at the start of 2023. Prior to that, I’ve never stepped inside a gym, never run before, played any team sports, or even got on monkey bars while growing up. Very unfit and uncoordinated background/history.

If you came from an active lifestyle, you may view my guide as ‘over the top’ — maybe you don’t need to train as much as we did.

Check out the SCT Walking Notes daily guide.

Questions: if you have any questions about my notes, drop a comment, and I’ll reply.

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What makes this North Star incredibly ambitious is my background in C-PTSD. Most research on improving HRV has been done on individuals with healthy upbringings and mild daily stresses. A few of these people have shared their stories online as “I doubled by HRV in only 6 months! From 60 to 120. You can do it too!” That is very impressive, but not so helpful for someone who didn’t have a healthy upbringing.

Having >50 HRV is not a low starting point. It shows enough resilience of the nervous system to safely try common practices like box breathing and ice baths. It also generally points to a ‘clear miss’ in a person’s daily routine — having an unhealthy habit. I’ve read articles and watched YouTube videos on terribly unfit young people who pick up the habit of running and dramatically improve their HRV within months. Or people who scroll all night on social media, surviving with 4 hours of sleep per night, finally allowing themselves to properly rest and improve their HRV. For some people, it’s about avoiding heavy exercise 2 hours before bedtime and eating KFC an hour before sleep. The fix is not easy, as changing lifestyles and habits are challenging, but it’s much more straightforward. At least, the risks and ambiguity are very low.

My challenge was never about alcohol, smoking, or letting go of the late-night party culture. It was the ambiguity of healing an injury one can’t even touch or see — a complex injury that our scientific knowledge struggles to unpack — a system that’s deeply integrated in the brain stem and amygdala, which has been pushed to the edge and is malfunctioning.

That requires reinventing the wheel.

Online forums about HRV written by people with C-PTSD are quite depressing. Anecdotal experiences reveal that this is almost an impossible mission. Most successful people start somewhere between 10-30 HRV and tend to only uplift their scores by 10-15 points from a decade of trying.

By running these experiments and playing scientist, I hope to help others on similar journeys. Maybe it’s naive, but if I can do it (someone with a suicidal background), others can do it too. We just need to figure out the right protocol for healing.

In this article, you will find…

• Why having a high HRV is important (and why this is a controversial topic)

• Experiments I ran & results

• Impacts of improving HRV on my life

• Future experiments

If you know someone who has gone through a similar journey or has expertise in improving HRV with a trauma background, I’d love to connect with them. Please reach out!

Note: as my articles are already really long, I will separate the “how to build your own protocol for improving autonomic nervous system health” to another day.

Why Having a High HRV is Important?

After diving into a rabbit hole of opinion articles about HRV and Reddit threads, I noticed a few things.

Improving HRV is quite a challenging and long-term process, even for people without mental health illnesses or trauma. It requires significant changes to one’s life routine, a lot of discipline and patience. The nervous system behaves in ways it’s been trained to do so, and rewiring is not easy.

Half of the internet voices full-heartedly believe that having a high HRV really matters for optimal health (including longevity experts), while the other half are sure that this is an irrelevant data point and completely related to your genetics. The classic, “I don’t know much about epigenetics, I’m not responsible for my health, because there is nothing I can do to improve my health, because I’m doomed by my parents.”

Note that I don’t fully disagree with the role our genes play in how high our HRV can go, but… I mostly disagree (thoughts elaborated later in this article). In short, HRV is somewhat similar to VO2Max. To be in the top 1%, you need exceptional fitness, health and genetics. But to have a ‘very good’ VO2Max, you just need to be fit (and not smoke).

I haven’t come across a single person who claimed the irrelevance of HRV via scientific research. This group either has a low HRV themselves or their child/partner has a low HRV. A little defensive from an offended crowd. At least most of the time, they admit (then dismiss) a very unhealthy habit that they have — something along the lines of, “yes, I don’t have the best sleep, like it’s very inconsistent and about 5 hours per night, but it’s not like that makes much of a difference anyway.” Despite that, this group also believes that they are “very healthy,” sometimes based on blood tests (that compare them to the wider population, including those with chronic diseases), and sometimes based on their feelings. Sounds familiar to the TruDiagnostic critics. It’s the “I feel healthy, therefore I am(!!!)” statement. Oh, I wish things were that simple; I would just feel my way through life. 🧘‍♀️

Let me explain what HRV is, and I’ll let you be the judge.

Heart Rate Variability (HRV) is the measure of the variation in time between each heartbeat. Resting Heart Rate (RHR) is the average beats per minute.

If you are wondering, hold on a sec, what do you mean by the variation and the average of my heart beats… your heart does not beat regularly, like… “bum - bum - bum - bum.” That only happens in movies. In real life, your heart beats more like… “da - bum —— da - bum —— da - bum —— da - bum.”

The exact changes in time between successive beats show the balance between your sympathetic (fight-flight) and parasympathetic (calm-rest-digest) systems. A healthy autonomic nervous system (ANS) will have a healthy balance/regulation between these two systems.

Depending on your condition, doctors can use HRV, MRI, Tilt Table Test, breathing tests and sweat tests to measure the health of your ANS.

First image shows trends over time (i.e. week), second image shows trends within a day.

✅ We have established that HRV is an indicator of the health of your autonomic nervous system.

A healthy nervous system is associated with…

• Better sleep quality:

  • You can find countless research papers and clinical trials on NIH, ScienceDirect and Frontiers to show the link between a healthy nervous system (high HRV) and high sleep quality (self-reported and tracked by wearables).

  • Better sleep quality will help reduce and avoid psychological stress and cognitive decline (memory, focus, response time, etc).

• Higher resilience to psychological challenges:

  • Having lower resilience and HRV is a significant risk factor for developing PTSD, even from generic adulting challenges.

  • People with lower resilience to psychological challenges are more reactive throughout the day, which makes maintaining healthy relationships challenging.

• Higher resilience to physical strain:

  • Athletes generally track their HRV to ensure they are not overtraining. Consistently running a very low HRV also increases the risk of injuries and overtraining, as the body finds it challenging to recover.

• Higher resilience of the immune system:

  • The risk of any immune disease is 58% higher for those with trauma and dysregulated nervous systems.

  • Chronic stress releases histamine, raises inflammation levels and suppressor T cell levels.

• Regulation of hormonal health:

  • Recent studies are revealing that both trauma and a dysregulated nervous system lower testosterone levels in men.

  • Consistent activation of the sympathetic and dorsal vagal systems can lead to loss of periods for women. This makes sense from an evolutionary standpoint. When the body is trying hard to survive, why should it give birth to a baby?

  • Trauma patients have 37% higher chance of experiencing pregnancy complications — 41% higher chance of premature birth, and 27% higher chance of giving birth to a baby with low body weight.

• Healthy metabolism:

  • A dysregulated nervous system can cause insulin resistance, high blood sugar and high blood pressure.

  • A dysregulated nervous system promotes fat storage (especially visceral fat). Our nervous systems function in a very similar way to how our great-grandparents’ nervous systems functioned in the Bronze Age. Yes, we haven’t changed much at all! So, it can’t tell the difference between the danger of starvation and divorce. Both are stressors, and both can lead to your body trying to brace itself for a harsh, hungry winter (by storing excess fat).

  • 30-40% of people with metabolic syndrome have dysregulated nervous systems.

• Healthy gut & digestion:

  • A dysregulated nervous system due to chronic stress changes the acid concentration in the stomach and the microbiome in the gut.

  • These changes in the gut microbiome often lead to IBS, leaky gut syndrome and other digestive problems.

• Healthy heart:

  • People with a dysregulated nervous system often show elevated cholesterol, C-reactive protein and RHR.

  • Phobic anxiety increases the risk of coronary heart disease by 70%. Panic disorder increases this risk by 50% and PTSD by 61%.

• Good cognitive health:

  • Trauma influences microglia, the brain’s immune system. When facing high trauma, the microglia eat the nerve endings instead of enhancing growth.

  • A dysregulated nervous system can result in poor memory, poor concentration, poor problem-solving skills, poor decision-making and poor emotional regulation.

Note: people with chronic health diseases (especially cardiovascular health), mental health illnesses, persistent immunity issues and trauma will have a lower HRV.

If you ask me, that’s pretty important stuff! While you don’t need to race with athletic young men and score over 200 HRV, maintaining a high HRV will benefit you a lot.

Here are two graphs showing what a healthy HRV chart looks like by age. To set the right expectations, a fit person’s HRV should be above the average on this chart.

The variance in HRV is not only caused by levels of fitness, stress, sleep quality and overall health. Genetics play some role in this as well. Some people will have a shockingly high HRV. It’s not uncommon on Whoop to see fit young men (generally team sport players or runners) with +200 HRV. However, if your HRV is well below the healthy range, I refuse to hide behind the “not my fault or responsibility, it’s my genes” line of defence.

Hope I cleared up why I am obsessed with tracking HRV, along with RHR. For me, it’s a key step in healing C-PTSD and improving my overall health and resilience.

To clarify (because someone asked me this at a longevity event), having traumatic experiences doesn’t always lead to a low HRV. As mentioned in a prior post, my partner also experienced some traumatic events as a child. He showed symptoms of trauma, worked on growing and becoming more resilient in his 20s. He has a very good RHR and HRV for his age.

In a prior article reviewing Pulsetto, I mentioned the difference between parasympathetic, sympathetic and dorsal vagal systems. The nervous system receives the most damage when it is consistently put through the dorsal vagal system and believes that it is stuck in danger (there is no escape, no hope). Not all traumatic experiences actively trigger that state. There is also emerging research illustrating the difference between how male and female bodies/biology handle stress.*

• The threshold for ‘damaging stress’ is higher for men than women (on average), meaning men tend to handle higher stress levels better.

• Damage to the male nervous system doesn’t cause as much damage to the other organ systems as it does to females. There is clear evidence showing links between trauma and poor gut health, cardiovascular diseases, elevated liver values, chronic pain, autoimmune diseases and cognitive decline for women. The results are less severe for men (except for cognitive health). I also acknowledge that comparing trauma is complex and challenging, so more research is needed for this topic.

• Women generally show a larger cortisol response to stress and lower pro-inflammatory cytokines in comparison to men. Women also have a lower baseline of cortisol concentration.

Adding on, our bodies are better at handling ‘one-time’ stressors, like running away from a bear in caveman times, instead of chronic, dragging stress (i.e. toxic career environments, constant poverty, taxes). Some also argue that the female mind and body are under constant stress without a break. Fair argument!

Examples; pregnancy and taking care of babies (the crying, poor sleep, physical labour etc), hormonal shifts (increase of stressors leading up to monthly periods and menopause), and taking up too much responsibility (children, domestic duties, career duties, etc).

Therefore, research suggests that women are 2x more likely to develop PTSD than men. Noting that an absence of a PTSD diagnosis doesn’t mean the individual was not negatively impacted by the traumatic event.

*Please don’t read the above as “women are weak or incapable.” The science shows a different stress response between the genders. Let’s not interpret “different” in a negative light.

Before I move on to the next section of this article, here are two useful videos from the Huberman Lab Podcast.

• Control Your Vagus Nerve to Improve Mood, Alertness & Neuroplasticity

• Simple Tool to Boost Heart Rate Variability (HRV)

Experiments I Ran & Results

On my mission to quadruple my HRV, I documented all the things I tried this year.

Noting a few key events that happened prior to this year’s experiment, which have also positively influenced my HRV and sped up my recovery process.

• I had EMDR therapy for 3 months.

  • Anecdotal evidence from trauma patients suggests that EMDR can improve HRV by 10 points within 3 months.

  • In a randomised trial, EMDR significantly increased high‑frequency HRV (p = .003) and reduced low‑frequency HRV (p ≤ .001) immediately after treatment. The effects were maintained at 1 month and 3 month follow‑up sessions, indicating stronger parasympathetic tone and better autonomic balance. The positive results are consistent in other trials too.

  • If you are located in Sydney and looking for a clinical psychologist specialised in EMDR and C-PTSD, I highly recommend the Centered Life Psychology Clinic in Kogarah. The small clinic is run by Tala Mansour, who has done magic for me. It’s quite challenging to find a psychologist with C-PTSD and EMDR expertise, but once you find a match, the process really uplifts your life quality in many ways.

• I went no contact with my parents and low contact with some family members.

  • Anecdotal evidence by C-PTSD survivors and observant psychologists suggests that removal of nervous system triggers (i.e. toxic/dangerous environments, situations and people) significantly improves the autonomic balance and health of patients.

• In October, I organised my workout schedule for the week to have 2 back-to-back rest days. This has helped me boost my HRV and recovery fully from the physical strain. My prior routine was 2 workouts, 1 rest, 3 workouts, 1 rest.

On the 1st of August 2025, my average HRV was about 24, as it bounced between 19 to 29. This average was calculated during a period when I was taking a break from regular exercise. I cannot imagine what my HRV would have been like before EMDR and going no contact. Based on my research, a relatively healthy and active woman in their early 20s with C-PTSD that hasn’t been treated by a professional can expect a HRV between 8-20. That’s very scary. I began this journey ranking among 75-85 years old women, despite my level of fitness and overall health.

Experiments

Tracking Method: Whoop (RHR, HRV, sleep stress, sleep quality, daily stress) and daily mood.

Other Indicators: frequency of nightmares, regularity of periods and reactivity to stressors.

Note: I have travelled a fair amount while running these experiments. Travelling brought some irregularity and inconsistency in my daily schedule, which isn’t the perfect base for HRV experimentation. The nervous system is most comfortable in safe and predictable environments. That being said, I tried my best to maintain the same schedule almost every day and avoided major stressors.

Disclaimer: what works for me may not work for you.

Repeating Daily Affirmations

• Duration: 15 minutes every day for 2 weeks. Morning.

• Impacts on HRV: No effect.

• Other Impacts: Slight increase in optimism and confidence. While it makes you feel good in the moment, it does not decrease stress when triggered.

• Conclusion: To set the right intentions for the day, it’s a good idea to do it in the morning, especially if morning prayers or gratitude aren’t already a part of the routine. Given my goal of building a protocol for improving HRV, this is no longer prioritised in my routine.

Guided Meditations

• Duration: 15 minutes, 3x a week over 2 weeks. Midday.

• Impacts on HRV: No effect.

• Other Impacts: Difficulty completing the session due to rising heartbeat and stress response. Ended sessions about 5-7 minutes early with a heavy heart and throat ache, feeling of choking, and slight panic response. Whoop showed that I entered Zone 1. Nightmares.

• Conclusion: Unsuccessful.

  Some of my trauma memories link to nighttime events. So, my nervous system associated calm, quiet, still and dark (eyes closed) environments with an expectation of sudden danger. I suspect this triggers a stressful response during meditations.

  Later research and discussions during the Wanderlust Longevity Event led me to realise that what triggered an intense response was my persistence in avoiding a cry (forcing emotions). I was also recommended to start with 5 minute meditations to get my nervous system familiar with the practice before increasing durations to 15 minutes.

  I also concluded that this was an intermediate exercise, and I was a beginner with a very low HRV when I experimented with guided meditations.

Boxed Breathing

• Duration: 5 minutes, 3x over 2 weeks. Night.

• Impacts on HRV: Slight Dip (3-5 points).

• Other Impacts: Difficulty completing the session due to rapidly rising heartbeats and sharp stress response. Could not breathe longer than 2 minutes each time. Difficulty breathing, feeling of choking, and a heavy heart and throat ache. Panic response and slight confusion. Nightmares. Some forgotten/buried memories rose to the surface of consciousness. They were unpleasant. It made sense why my brain wanted to forget about them in the first place.

• Conclusion: Unsuccessful. Similar reasons as my response to ‘guided meditation’. I experimented with this too early; I would classify box breathing as an intermediate exercise.

Warm Bath

• Duration: 20 minutes. Tested on different weeks for 3x in total. Night.

• Impacts on HRV: Dip (5-7 points).

• Other Impacts: Faint, confused, dizzy. Took me about 15 minutes of lying on the bed and cooling down to feel ok.

• Conclusion: Unsuccessful. I was recommended to try sauna, but chose to start with a warm (not hot steaming) bath to test my response. I have low blood pressure, so that’s probably the cause of my response.

Restorative Yoga

• Duration: 15 minutes 3x a week for 3 weeks. Night.

• Impacts on HRV: No effect.

• Other Impacts: Helps with flexibility and relaxing the muscles a bit.

• Conclusion: Impacts are very small and not worth the time for me.

Yoga

• Duration: 15 minutes 3x a week for 3 weeks. Morning.

• Impacts on HRV: No effect.

• Other Impacts: Helps with flexibility a bit.

• Conclusion: Can complement a regular exercise routine. It’s good to get some movement in the body even on rest days, so I’m currently doing yoga once a week to aid recovery.

Float Therapy

• Duration: 50 minutes, 1x week for 4 weeks. Afternoon.

• Impacts on HRV: No effect.

• Other Impacts: Deeply relaxing for the mind and body. My RHR did drop during the session, but not to outstanding levels. The float tank and sensory deprivation feel like disappearing into the space, which I find to be extremely peaceful. Others find this scary and claustrophobic. It’s a personal preference.

  Incredible for my hair and skin health. This is why I love going to the beach for a quick dip (something I should do more of). Salt does wonders for naturally curling my hair, smoothening my skin, and taking the oil from my forehead.

  Improving bodily awareness. As you float, it’s common to notice where the tension is in your body. Is there tightness in your neck? Do you have joint pain? Did your calves work out too much? The experience enhances the mind-body connection.

• Conclusion: Admitting that I should have probably attended float therapy multiple times a week to test its impact. I attended float therapy on my rest day (no exercise) to see if it would boost the recovery.

  The challenge with float therapy is the temperature for me. The temperature needs to be exact — not cold but not too warm, as I feel faint in warm baths — but most places have the temperature setting too warm for my comfort.

  Given the time commitment, accessibility challenges and costs associated with this therapy, I find this to be an expensive hair and skin care. However, it is a calming self-care activity, so I am more inclined to treat this like a massage session — once every 6 weeks, as a ‘treat yourself’ time.

Sound Healing

• Duration: 30 minutes, every 2nd day for 2 weeks. Midday.

• Impacts on HRV: No effect on its own. When coupled with NSDR, it enhanced the effectiveness of the practice by about 3 points.

• Other Impacts: Relaxing for the mind, builds my inner optimism, stabilises the mood within the first 30 minutes. Beyond 45 minutes, feeling slightly uncomfortable, fidgety and overstimulated.

• Conclusion: Incorporated this in my nightly NSDR routine for 15 minutes. On some days, I prefer to listen to sound healing tunes while working for 30 minutes.

  I need to make an effort to lie still for 10 minutes midday with sound healing to reset the mind. I also need to make a greater effort to strengthen my nighttime wind-down routine, as I would like to introduce sound healing while reading a book in bed for 20 minutes.

  In retrospect, the best practice for sound healing is not to move your body, but during my experiment, I continued to work on my blog. So, this probably was not a well-conducted experiment, even though the impacts are showing positive.

NSDR (Non Sleep Deep Rest) or Yoga Nidra

• Duration: 15 minutes, every night for 4 weeks. Night.

• Impacts on HRV: Built my average HRV by 10 points to 34. Over 4 weeks, I was able to hit my first all-time high HRV for 1 night at 53. I also hit 44 and 41 once.

  Instantly felt the difference after the first practice, and it blew my mind. My HRV improved over the first 3 weeks of the practice, then held steady. NSDR shields my nervous system from heavy strain, as my HRV does not dip dramatically after a heavy gym or running day — holds relatively stable throughout the week. When NSDR is not performed, a sharp dip in HRV is seen.

• Other Impacts: Reduces RHR by 5 points. Reduces nightly stress levels from medium-high to a steady low. When I began my journey of experimentation, my nightly stress levels were consistently high throughout the night, as if I were exercising all night. Since NSDR, my sleep stress rarely reaches to medium levels.

  Interesting note: during the first week of NSDR practise, I saw dreams with “nightmare” content, without feeling scared. Really graphic and scary content did not affect me because in those dreams, I felt detached from my body — i.e. people stabbing me, but it did not hurt. So, I strongly believe that NSDR helped me to process some trauma as well.

  Deeply relaxes the mind, and a sense of safety flows through the body. Helps falling asleep instantly — I may hold a record for sleep latency and sleep efficiency on some nights. Cools the body temperature.

  Over the last 2 months, regular practise of NSDR has improved my breathing — lung capacity and capability of performing breathing exercises for ‘relaxation’.

  Improved my bodily awareness, mind-muscle connection, daily mindfulness, and reduced chances of overtraining/injuries. Improved my emotional awareness — I can differentiate whether my muscles or my nervous system is tired.

• Conclusion: This is a must-have of my nightly routine, almost a non-negotiable.

  Best performed when lying on the ground (instead of a bed) in a dark and quiet room.

  I suspect this practice works for me due to the routine element of it. A body scan during NSDR is like a checklist — predictable, from head to toe. For this reason, unfortunately, the positive impacts of this practice are only seen after 1 specific yoga nidra recording. I have memorised the recording fully because if I try a new recording, then I don’t see the positive impacts (as it becomes unpredictable).

  

• This is an average NSDR session. Sometimes my min HR is 60, sometimes 56.

  Here is an example NSDR practise you can try at home.

  I found out about this on a Huberman Podcast (listen to “30 Minutes of This Feels Like 8 Hours of Sleep” for more info). Ever since, I’ve been wanting to reach out to express my gratitude. Need to do that.

Pulsetto Vagus Nerve Stimulation

• Duration: 2x a day, 5-10 minutes each session for 6 weeks. Morning and night.

• Modules: Sleep, stress and burnout.

• Impacts on HRV: Drop by 10 points. Negative impacts lasted for 6 weeks.

• Other Impacts: See my full review on Pulsetto. It’s been a disastrous experiment with lasting effects on my RHR, sleep quality and daily stress, which in retrospect I should have stopped much sooner.

• Conclusion: Caused injury to my nervous system. This is an advanced product for individuals with healthy backgrounds. Not willing to try this product again until my HRV triples from where I started.

Hyperbaric Oxygen Therapy (HBOT)

• Duration: 1 month, 3x a week for 50 mins, low pressure. 1 month, 3x a week for 90 mins, high pressure. Midday.

• Impacts on HRV: No effect. However, during sessions with high pressure, my RHR dropped to all-time-lows; I was able to activate my parasympathetic tone.

• Other Impacts: This is a very refreshing and calming experience.

  VO2Max improved from 49 to 51. I genuinely felt my breath capacity improve. After months of trying to run faster with very minimal improvement, I saw a dramatic improvement in my running speed. Running 10km at 1 hour 4 minutes became 54 minutes.

  Unusually fast recovery from straining exercises and an unusual increase in muscle mass and strength. Within 3 months, despite reducing the number of strength training days in the gym, I gained 1.85kg of muscle, which is shocking for a woman who is an intermediate gym goer. My previous best result was 600g in 3 months. At the start of the experiment, my pull-ups were 6 6 5 5 5 reps, and dips were 7 7 7 6 6 reps (bodyweight). I was at a plateau with my progress. By the end of this experiment, my pull-ups were 7 7 7 6 6, and dips were 9 9 9 9 8 (bodyweight).

  David got sick while I was running this experiment. I normally catch every flu he has within a few days and walk around sniffly, coughy and with a fever. My research led me to believe that HBOT recharges the immune system; it pumps more oxygen into our bodies, helping the good bacteria grow and fight off infections. This might be the first time that David suffered from a dragging flu for a week, and I was almost completely fine.

  These impacts align with wider scientific research. So, while it felt surprising, the results were expected.

  Conclusion: I’m in split minds about this.

  Initially, I chose this therapy to improve lung health. This was a focus area after TruDiagnostic results, and I had asthma during childhood. HBOT hit 2 goals at once for me. Depending on my next TruDiagnostic results and income, I may be keen to cycle HBOT — on 3 months and off 6 months next year.

  I felt (and was able to measure) a noticeable difference between HBOT on low vs high pressure. It’s disappointing that most clinics only offer low-pressure HBOT. The Orchard Richmond* in Richmond offered high pressure for 90 minutes, which was the most effective way of doing HBOT.

  Overall, there were two issues with this experiment.

  1. I kept falling asleep because the experience was so calming. That’s great! However, sleeping in the middle of the day disrupted my sleep at night. REM and deep sleep time were shortened, and I struggled to fall asleep. Even though I regularly activated my parasympathetic tone (which is a positive sign in theory), due to sleep disruption, my HRV did not improve.

  2. I was also recovering from the damage of Pulsetto at the time, which made it challenging to judge the effectiveness of this therapy. My HRV did not increase or decrease. Did HBOT cushion the negative impacts of Pulsetto? Or did it not have any direct impact on my HRV? We don’t know for sure.

  As it allowed me to enter into the parasympathetic system during the session, I am inclined to believe that this was somewhat a helpful therapy for improving HRV. However, it is time-consuming (90 minutes in the middle of the day when one is supposed to be most productive), and as David said, “a very expensive sleep and way to relax.”

  Given its impacts on recovering, growing muscles and strengthening the immune system, I’m very positive on HBOT when there are specific recovery reasons, like post-surgery. It probably does wonders for pro athletes. For my current income, which is pretty average, I will be more selective with my use of HBOT in the future.

The HBOT selfies! The screenshots are from Whoop during HBOT. You can clearly see how low my RHR gets and how dramatically my stress levels drop during each session.

Red Light Therapy

I started the HBOT experiment first, then added RLT after 3 weeks. I attended both therapies in The Orchard Richmond (Melbourne). This clinic offers a combination of yellow, red, green, blue*

• Duration: 5 weeks, 3x a week for 15 mins. Midday.

• Impacts on HRV: No effect.

• Other Impacts: Similar comments about speed of recovery from straining exercises, and improvements in muscle mass and strength.

  I have a tan mark on the left side of my forehead, which becomes apparent during spring and summer. I got this mark when I was about 3 years old after my grandmother poured perfume on my head and took me out under the sun for an hour (or until I began to complain from the burning discomfort). I haven’t tried any special therapies to remove that mark, as it hadn’t concerned me much. However, both David and I noticed that this mark became a bit faint over the course of 5 weeks. This is quite surprising, as we thought this mark was now permanent.

  Despite having quite a strong immune system, my skin has always struggled to heal from scars, ever since I was a young kid. What a coincidence that I slipped and fell on my bum while running the RLT experiment. A rock cut my skin and bruised the surface. Given how slow even mozzie bites fade from my skin (about 3-4 months), I wasn’t sure if red light could help me. After 2 weeks, the big red scar was completely gone.

  I mentioned on a LinkedIn post last month that in August, I found 3 random white hairs at the crown of my head. Well, I could not find a single white or grey hair on me ever since the RLT began. In fact, my hair grew noticeably fuller.

• Conclusion: It may be placebo, but I really felt my face glowing. The experience was short and relaxing — 15 minutes a day is very achievable.

  I’ve never had any challenges with pimples, acne, black spots or skin texture. However, I spoke to a few others attending the RLT sessions in the clinic who suffered from acne, and they said they’ve seen significant improvements from week 3. This aligns with external scientific research.

  Despite not improving my HRV, there is clear evidence for RLT’s impact on skin and muscles. I highly recommend it as a recovery tool for physical injuries, surgeries and scars, along with healing/aiding skin concerns. Keen to investigate a red light panel for our home next year (once we have some money saved up).

Ashwagandha

The daily recommended dose is 250-500mg. Some studies show benefits for 500-600mg. I chose to start with a very light dose due to my background. This is the starting dose that I recommend for people sharing a similar background until their bodies are used to the effects of the supplement.

• Duration: daily, 125mg

• Impacts on HRV: Improved by 10 points. The most impactful intervention/experiment I tried since EMDR and NSDR. I hit my personal best HRV and RHR multiple times — gives me a lot of hope.

• Other Impacts: Calmer, more balanced, grounded, mindful and optimistic during the day.

  During the first 10 days, my REM cycle shortened by 40 minutes and dropped to 1h 50mins. I had consistent and repetitive nightmares, which were tiring throughout the night. David noticed that I woke up with a scream in the middle of the night and shook a few times during the night. Despite this, my sleep stress remained very low, HRV improved and RHR lowered dramatically.

  After the first 10 days, my REM cycle increased back to 2h 10 minutes, which is still a bit lower than my prior average. I am no longer having intense nightmares, but rather mildly stressful, chaotic and uncomfortable dreams — there is improvement there. My HRV and RHR continue to improve.

  After my research and conversations with my psychologist, we hypothesise that the nightmares are a temporary impact due to an overly ‘relaxed’ state. The REM cycle serves the purpose of processing uncomfortable events during the day; it’s key to be psychologically stable and healthy. However, the REM cycle process events when it is ready. So, a feeling of ‘safety’, activating the parasympathetic tone, having a low RHR and a high HRV have an influence. As my HRV was used to bouncing between 20-37, a rapid increase to experiencing 50s was shocking to the system. My nervous system probably thought, “wow, we have never been this safe and resilient before. I’m ready to process my entire life’s trauma. I can handle anything!” Hence, the flood of nightmares. As my nervous system adjusted to the new HRV average and I did some work on the persistent themes behind the nightmares by journalling, the nightmares began to calm down.

  An average person is awake 30-55 minutes while sleeping. I have always been a deep sleeper, only awake for about 15 minutes on average per night (fluctuating between 10-20 minutes, depending on external noise, hormonal changes, etc). I began to fluctuate between 5-15 minutes of awake time per night.

• Conclusion: Ashwagandha was my medication to heal from the Pulsetto injury.

  Interesting to note that about 2.5 years ago, I tried ashwagandha (400mg) and rhodiola rosea as supplements at different times. Rhodiola rosea made me very panicky and irritated, almost manic. Ashwagandha made me feel a little sick and slightly anxious/uncomfortable. So, this was a pleasant surprise to me. In retrospect, I probably overloaded my body and overwhelmed my nervous system with a very high dose.

  I am interested in increasing the dose in the future, if my body adapts to the impacts of this dose. Currently, I am hesitant to increase the dose due to the nightmares. Over the past 5 months, I learned to not force/rush relaxation or the parasympathetic tone, but instead, gently nudge/guide and observe. This dose is already having a lot of impacts on me.

  I would like to observe the impacts of ashwagandha on my VO2Max over the next 2 months. There are several studies over the last 5 years concluding that supplementation can help improve VO2Max. A 2023 study found a 9.5% increase in VO2max in male participants and a 7% increase in female participants across an eight-week period when dosed with 600 mg per day.

*If you are based in Melbourne, meet with Symee, the owner of The Orchard Richmond in Richmond and Prahan. His longevity clinics have HBOT, RLT, hydrogen therapy, compression boots, infrared sauna, cold plunge, and sensory deprivation salt float tank.

What’s great about his clinic is the affordability and flexibility of his packages — any 10 therapies of your choice is a set price, and you receive additional benefits for being a member. Every other clinic I’ve found in Melbourne forces customers to buy ‘combo packs’ that involve sauna and cold plunge — i.e. 2x sauna, 2x cold plunge, 2x HBOT, 1 RLT for $XX — and individual purchases are outrageously expensive for my budget.

I’ve got to try hydrogen therapy in his clinic, which is known to support brain and lung health, and has anti-inflammatory effects. This is something I would like to pursue next year for lung and cognitive health.

I tried compression boots 2x a week for 3 weeks. Compression boots don’t impact HRV — I always knew that, but wanted to experiment for muscle recovery. While it is relaxing, I prefer to use a foam roller and massage gun to release muscular tension. Depending on my next TruDiagnostic test results, I may think about experimenting with compression boots specifically for lymphatic drainage effects.

I have also tried the infrared sauna & cold plunge combo. Despite the shock of the cold, this experience was quite calming. Symee recommends this for people with low blood pressure as an alternative to long sauna sessions. During the session, my RHR and stress response went low. I came out of the session feeling refreshed. I cannot report its impact on HRV as I don’t have enough data yet. However, this is something I may pursue as a future experiment.

Impacts of Improving HRV In My Life

In 5 months, I was able to move my average HRV from 24 to 44. That is 20 points of increase. At the start of my journey, my lowest was 19. So far, my highest has been 54.

Likewise, I was able to move my average RHR from 65 to 61. My highest was 72 on the first month of my journey and 76 during Pulsetto use. In December, my lowest has been 58.

This is a damn slow progress. But these are huge improvements! I must say that I’m quite proud.

There is still a long way to go to reach 94 HRV. But even doubling my HRV from its starting point had a lot of impacts in my life. This created new challenges for me to resolve.

Two weeks ago, David and I had a conversation about the changes in me. Sharing this personal conversation because it needs to be shared. Improving HRV is described as a very positive experience for people, but there is the other side of the coin that isn’t mentioned. In my case, this is called “post-traumatic growth.”

ME: I was fine when my maladaptive beliefs and behaviours faded away. That created a better version of me. But I’m not ready to let go of my good qualities. I don’t know who I am right now. I was this awesome person; what made me “me” isn’t there.

HIM: You feel like you are losing yourself.

ME: Yes. It’s concerning. This Doa hasn’t done anything in life. It was the other Doa who won the awards, rapidly progressed in her career, was very efficient with her time, began great healthy habits, pushed herself to reach places she thought she couldn’t.

HIM: But that doesn’t mean this new version of you can’t do these things. I think you are actually finding yourself.

ME: I’m indecisive, not as efficient, not remembering my daily checklist, my mornings fly away — that’s the worst part. I was so fast in the mornings. It’s like I don’t have the same drive.

HIM: This process is temporary. These new challenges are a great sign of progress; they are healthy to have. Every other person has these challenges. Most people don’t wake up at an ungodly time in a rush and get 10 things done within an hour. But they find ways to gain motivation in the morning. You’ll find your unique ways to feel motivated, focused, be assertive and do things without being driven by trauma.

So, what’s changed about me over the last 5 months?

You’ll probably notice that these changes are not negative at all! But major changes are never comfortable. It’s normal to feel a bit of grief every time you let go of something. So, I would like to reflect on what I am “exchanging” instead.

Morning rush, drive & motivation

I used to naturally wake up at about 5am with an elevated heartbeat, slight panic and rush, as if the world was ending if I wasn’t ready to go in 15 minutes. It led to very efficient mornings, when I would be done with gym, shower and brekkie by 8am, ready to start the day. Mornings were my most productive times with so much energy, motivation and drive to work. Absolutely no power stopped or slowed my morning routine. It could be storming and pouring rain outside; I would still be running my 10km via the same route on a Saturday. It made me feel powerful; I was “unstoppable.”

Now, I naturally wake up at about 5.50am with sunrise. I’m noticing the rays of the sun peak between the curtains, the sparkles of light dance through the air — it makes me smile. I roll for a cuddle. I feel grateful. I think about my day. Time slowed down and sped up at once. Or perhaps I slowed down. I feel my body through the motions of warming up, feeling ready, then departing. I get to work at 9am instead.

Why? Once the body gets used to calming down, it realises how healing this is. Rushing without an important reason feels odd and becomes challenging.

Exchanging: pace and efficiency with intention and mindfulness.

Daily plans

I used to naturally remember my daily plan hour by hour with all of its details. I was not just an over-planner, but also an unusually precise recaller of memories. There was very little surprise in my daily life, as all the decisions were made on Friday afternoon.

Now, I still plan for the week ahead on my Friday afternoons. But my plan is very high-level. I feel tired thinking in such detail, or so far out (i.e. why pick your food order from a cafe that you are planning to go to in 54 days?). Even if I plan for something, I genuinely forget. This is forcing me to make a lot of decisions on the spot, which is something I am adjusting to.

Why? Because over-planning and remembering everything with such detail was only necessary when I was on the edge (when getting things wrong meant catastrophe). When I felt safe in my heart, I didn’t need to “control” the uncontrollable for safety.

Exchanging: strong precise planning with agility and adaptability.

Bodily awareness

I used to feel the same every single day. If I felt tired, I thought I felt tired everywhere. I could not differentiate between having sore legs vs a tired nervous system. I was genuinely unaware of my body, which also contributed to my injuries.

As I entered into the parasympathetic tone regularly, my nervous system remembered how peace and calm felt. Now, I can literally say, “I have DOMs on my quads, but the rest of me is fine.” I notice when my heart beats faster. I notice when my nervous system is triggered and when it is tired.

Exchanging: going through the motions with awareness and intention.

Two personalities

I think most people have an “internal voice.” Or maybe a few. Well, I used to have 1 voice. She directed my life on every topic. She had the brutal, sarcastic, hard-to-please, tough love vibes with a clearly defined idea of what was right and wrong. She is the reason why I have a lot of healthy habits in my life. She is the reason why I have valuable relationships, some financial savings, and work success. I have so much respect for her. She may be tough, but she is the voice of reason.

Now, I have another internal voice. It’s a little annoying. She’s so bouncy, happy, excited, optimistic and impulsive. She gets distracted easily. And she notices things that 4 years old girls notice, like reindeer cake pops and butterfly wings. She popped out of nowhere. I never met her in my life. 🧚

Why? A part of my personality that should have been expressed was repressed and sh*t scared as a young child is now feeling safe to come out. My nervous system has healed enough to let her speak up.

Here’s the problem. Making decisions is now even harder. There is unnecessary internal conflict happening in my mind’s control centre on whether we should have salmon with black lentils, spices, herbs and three different types of greens OR a pink pavlova with sprinkles for dinner. Now, I need to practice discipline in a different way. I still love my healthy habits, but I also need to find a balance between the two voices in my head.

Exchanging: forceful discipline and ‘tough it out for success’ with prioritisation, playfulness, curiosity, optimism, a balanced and rich personality, and real discipline (getting things done even when Little Doa doesn’t find it fun).

Over-thinking & over-explaining. AND things don’t stress me so much anymore

Some examples…

• If I am unhappy about something, I feel more comfortable stating my dissatisfaction on the same day or a day after, rather than sitting on sour feelings.

• If someone misunderstands and judges me, it sounds like their problem. Communication is a two-way street.

• Rather than jumping to catastrophic conclusions, my brain is more inclined to think, “I’m sure it’s not that bad, this isn’t a horror movie, I’m sure we can find a solution.”

Exchanging: trying to control variables out of my control with acceptance and more space/energy in the brain to think about more important things in life.

Social media, clutter, too much noise, fast music, crowds and the chaos of the city are not very tempting (kind of tiring)

Clutter is no longer exciting. It’s tiring. Takes too much unnecessary space in the mind. Simple things make me happier. Wearing the same clothes is relaxing. Quiet is freeing. Empty space invites creativity and deep thoughts. Social media reels are too repetitive. I always valued insightful podcasts and documentaries, but now, I am intentionally choosing to give my precious time to only meaningful content.

Exchanging: rush and adrenaline spikes with simplicity and prioritisation, meaningful and valuable communication, and more space/energy in the brain to think about more important things in life.

I choose calm, peace and quiet. I notice more and more

Everything I achieved so far came from fire, storm and chaos. I thrived in places others were scared to go. I received awards at different times in my life for courage. I have always fought against something, pushed and forced my way through life.

That’s the startup world for product people, right? Work hard, force things to work, wear 8 different hats, go to the trenches, sweat, ship things fast, huge mission statements — fight for something!

But now I don’t feel like fighting. I want to think deeply, find strength and success through calm, peace, intention, curiosity and simplicity, and find a path through empathy and understanding. For the first time ever, I am noticing the finer details of life, the beauty of the present moment. I am noticing the shades of peach and cream on a tulip’s petals, how the ants march in organised lines on wheatgrass, how the clouds shift across the sky and collide. I finally see the beauty of stillness and want to dissolve in time. It’s like I’m on mushrooms or something.

I still love being a PM. I still desire to build products that leave impacts the life quality of others. I’m still passionate and find motivation in meaningful work. But without starting unnecessary fights.

Exchanging: extreme stamina, being the ‘hero’ and fighting for every win with clarity of thought, empathy, mindfulness, inner peace, resilience, simplicity, curiosity, emotional intelligence, and self-awareness.

Future Experiments

I can already tell that next year is going to be challenging to improve my HRV. I am expecting some major events in my life which will have negative impacts on my nervous system — 2 week long hiking trip in a harsh Tasy climate with risk of physical injury, surgery, more frequent travelling (airplanes are the worst for HRV), seeing the soccer world cup (why does the matches have to happen at 8pm??? So bad for sleep!), 2 week horseback safari, and relocating to a new country. Lots of new and unpredictable events — not what a nervous system likes! However, my partner and I have a rare opportunity to live this experience, and we want to make the most of it before starting fresh.

I still have a list of experiments to run. Looking forward to trying the following…

• Blue-light blocking glasses

• No phones or laptops 60 minutes before bed (only reading allowed)

• Increasing ashwagandha dose to 240mg (once the regularity of nightmares is spaced out)

• Meditation (after consistently hitting >50 HRV)

• Oxyfit breathing trainer (if meditation goes well)

• Box breathing (if meditation goes well)

• Ice baths (advanced therapy, once consistently hitting >70 HRV)

Celebrating the end of 2025 with a picnic full of gratitude, love, peace, healthy food and drinks. I am hopeful and excited for the experiences of the upcoming year.

^Slow cooked green split peas, wild black rice, steamed kale, artichoke hearts, corn, asparagus, olives, capers, fresh sardine fillets, fresh parsley, fresh coriander, spring onion, sauerkraut, a touch of lime, cumin and pepper. Served with dandelion root tea.

All the images I use have been generated using deepai.org (the pop art generator). 🦸‍♀️

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Most of us aren’t fresh out of uni; we have jobs that pay the bills, families, summer plans, lack of time and money, etc, so… Where do you start? What do you prioritise?

This article presents a consolidation of resources I’ve used on my journey. While I can’t promise X% of your time saved, I can promise that this guide shares resources valuable for your time. Please apply your judgement; you have the final say and responsibility on your journey.

Note: this list is not a substitute for your learning journey. Obviously, you need to learn about the role of a PM, do a lot of Googling (or prompt engineering), try to gain some experience, redo your resume, and all that jazz. See this list as ‘extras’ or stones on your learning pathway.

Essentials: for the busiest aspiring PM in the world

Do these 3 things if you are the busiest aspiring PM in the world:

1. Read “Inspired” by Marty Cagan

This is an all-time classic for product managers. An old, inspiring and iconic book that passionately shares the spirit of being a product manager in San Francisco.

While Inspired is a highly respected book in the product community, it also receives some criticism for being ‘utopic.’ However, it’s a great reference book that shares the history of product management and stories from the most successful technology-powered and product-led companies during their booming periods. It represents an ideal, and I believe every aspiring PM needs to get a strong understanding of what that ideal is.

2. Listen to Lenny’s Podcast

Basically, listen to successful product leaders talk to other successful product leaders about current affairs in the world of product, or about how to be a great product manager (values, practices, priorities, etc).

The goal is for you to learn the language of product, feel empathy for product struggles, and understand the ways of thinking through problems. Eventually, these three things will come naturally, and you’ll start speaking like a Product Manager. But to kick-start the process, you will need to immerse yourself in the world of product.

Podcasts are a great way for product immersion because the speakers are credible product leaders, they touch on a wide range of topics which can improve your contextual knowledge, and you can’t follow around a PM in your team all day like a baby duck.

I won’t recommend specific episodes to listen to, as the goal is not to master specific content but to learn the art of blending into the product culture.

I tend to get distracted while listening to conversational (but not technical/detailed) podcasts. Lenny’s podcast is the best I’ve found (but there are no rules to prevent you from 1.5x the speed of podcasts).

3. Either (your choice) read the 2 essays by Ken Norton: “How to Hire a Product Manager” and “A How to Hire a Product Manager Retrospective” OR watch some YouTube videos by Shreyas Doshi

I couldn’t pick between them. Ideally, do both.

• As an aspiring PM looking for your role in product, reading an essay written by a product leader who acquired his experience during Yahoo’s and Google’s booming periods in the early 2000s about how to hire a product manager is one of the best reads you can do. I don’t agree with everything Ken states. But it gives perspective.

• Shreyas is a great product leader to follow on LinkedIn. His short videos model ways of thinking for other PMs, provoke self-reflection and challenge maladaptive processes. He may be slightly advanced, hence he’s not in the top 2 of this list.

Tip: use AI to assist your career transition journey by diving into specific topics/terms/concepts/ideas/processes/frameworks that these resources reveal. Ask for elaboration, criticism, real-life examples, alternative views, etc.

The fully equipped learner

This section is for people who have the time to gain a strong understanding of product management from a wide variety of resources.

Do everything under the “essentials” list above (including the bonus tip), plus these 3 things:

1. Find a library of product resources from the Product School.

They have product templates, the full product manifesto (read this), glossary of product terminologies, guides, blog posts, etc. Also, check out Lenny’s favourite product templates. He has a great list!

This is not under the ‘essentials’ list because I believe you can learn about specific product tools and frameworks/templates in your first job (not a big deal), and every company tends to use slightly different tools anyway.

2. Follow Shreyas Doshi on LinkedIn. I think every PM should. He is very observant and challenges others to become more observant. He’ll be even more useful once you land your first product role. Here are some other product leaders to follow: Nikhyl Singhal, Melissa Perri, Hilary Gridley, and Shobhit Chugh.

3. Read Lenny’s Newsletter. His recent writings are AI-focused, but he’s got plenty of generic PM articles from prior years too. Again, whether starting out your product career or growing into more advanced positions, I think every PM should read Lenny’s content.

The passionate (not obsessed) nerd

This is for people with an abundance of time and curiosity, who want to dive into rabbit holes with more structure.

Do everything under the “essentials” (including the bonus tip) and “the fully equipped learner” lists, plus these 3 things:

1. Read Silicon Valley Articles.

Extremely valuable resource to have! Only making it to this section of the article because aspiring PMs tend to find the content and language too technical/advanced.

2. Follow another podcast: “Product Thinking Podcast” by Melissa Perri OR “The Product Manager Podcast” by Hannah Clark. Both are fine podcasts, so pick one that suits your style/interest.

3. Read more books! Some great ones are… “Escaping the Build Trap” by Melissa Perri, “Product Leadership” by Richard Banfield, Martin Eriksson and Nate Walkingshaw, “Lean Product Playbook” by Dan Olsen, and “Lean Startup” by Eric Ries.

Don’t rush these books. Don’t read them back-to-back. Take your time digesting the ideas, writing notes and reflecting. While I encourage junior PMs to read these books, I also encourage them to re-read these books as a Senior PM.

There is something beautiful about rediscovering something you were taught as a child, like a deep realisation that sinks in due to real-life experience (and pain). Two different experiences that complement each other during the process of growth:

• learning the theory from a naive context when everything jumps out fresh to you and clutters the mind with excitement, and

• learning the theory that is relatable to your experiences, where the ‘why’ behind certain ‘whats’ and the finer details that make the biggest differences jump out (when you missed them during the first read).

Tip: as you read, note some action points or goals to aim for. You may realise things you want to change or improve about yourself. Or maybe you realise how valuable some of your qualities or skills are and want to double down on those. What you read should inspire you to become a better version of yourself (in my opinion). So, do something about it(!) — let it plant the seeds and craft a better version of you.

All the images I use have been generated using deepai.org (the pop art generator). 🦸‍♀️

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Important: before purchasing any vagal nerve stimulation device, please do extensive research on the experiences of other users with similar backgrounds (i.e. goals and health concerns) and read this article. Stimulating the vagus nerve is a BIG deal and can be highly effective. Approach with caution, especially if you have a traumatic past.

On a scale of 1 to 10, how much did I scare you? Don’t worry; I’m ok and felt very excited to write this article. Long and full on, so if you wish to skip ahead, see my table of contents.

• Backstory

• Science Behind Pulsetto (and How it Works)

• What I Loved About Pulsetto

• What Frustrated Me About Pulsetto

• Thoughts of Innovation

• Should You Buy Pulsetto?

• Road to Recovery

Backstory

On my quest for uplifting HRV, I came across so many strategies and devices to experiment with, ranging from crystals to chants to magic carpets which send an electrical charge to your feet, and brain-stimulating, heart chakra-stimulating, vibrating tools to uplift your frequency of self-love — it’s a world of witchcraft out there! Despite being quite a spiritual person, I questioned my sanity a few times after seeing some suspicious tactics online.

I distinctly remember one morning when a YouTube sound recording was playing out ‘blessed frequencies’ as David (my partner) walked into the living room with his morning coffee.

…Soft female chants…

HIM: What is this strange sound?

ME: Frequencies.

HIM: What?

ME: It brings a state of calm and activates the parasympathetic nervous system.

HIM: It sounds disturbing.

VIDEO: Repeat after me.

HIM: Sounds like a cult.

VIDEO: I am vibrating at the frequency of love.

David almost choked on his coffee. The man coughed around for the next 3 minutes with a red face. The following few weeks, whenever he saw me wearing headphones, looking meditative, he asked, “are you vibrating?”

Jokes aside, there is a ton of pseudoscience when it comes to ‘healing the nervous system.’ It’s also very challenging to scientifically measure the impact of a lot of hypotheses about this topic. Think about it…what brings someone to a state of calm and safety may be different for another. Especially if you consider past traumatic experiences where everyday situations or items may have been associated with disturbing memories in the brain.

So, I knew that what works for me may not work for others (and vice versa), and I had to approach most things with a curious mind, even if they seem/sound a bit odd.

Pulsetto was a different case though. Years ago, I heard the company’s name mentioned on Bryan Johnson’s protocol and didn’t spend more than a minute thinking about it. During my extensive research, I came across the concept of ‘vagus nerve stimulation,’ which reminded me of the ‘polyvagal theory,’ and led me to investigate products in this field. There were a few, but it seemed like Pulsetto had the largest backing from scientific experiments, longevity experts, and customer reviews. So, I began my research.

Science Behind Pulsetto

Let’s start with the polyvagal theory.

A role of our nervous system is to respond to external stimuli, so we don’t die. The nervous system is the body’s communication network (via neurons), processing senses, feelings and coordinating ‘appropriate’ actions in our organs.

• Example from the caveman times: you see a bear (senses) —> you feel intense fear (feeling) —> you run for your life and scream to call help (appropriate action).

• Example from the modern man times: you see a cute girl approaching you (sense) —> you feel afraid to talk to her (feeling) —> you sweat, stutter and freeze (in….appropriate action???).

You get the point. If you’re wondering, how is this useful to the modern man, sometimes, it’s not. Most of us living in the Western world rarely face life-threatening situations that trigger us to enter the well-known ‘fight or flight’ state. But our nervous system still seeks to protect us from possible danger. It’s also not able to differentiate between ‘life-threatening’ situations and daily uncomfortable situations, hence the ‘bear’ in my earlier example became the ‘cute girl.’ Or public speaking for some people.

It’s fascinating that our nervous system sends signals to all of our organs; hence, the impacts of trauma or chronic stress can be measured on many organ systems.

• Example: as a woman, if you are in constant danger, why should you get pregnant? You can’t raise a baby when you may die soon. Hence, women with chronic stress and eating disorders tend to lose their periods.

• Example: in the small towns around the Mediterranean Sea, where people famously live over 100 years old, if you visit a doctor for chronic pain without any blood tests to provide a logical explanation, then you’ll most likely hear; “you just need to reeest and relaaaax, my friend. Go home and sleep, kiss your wife, hug your neighbour, and eat some biscotti. Don’t think too much! No good for you.”

While I am simplifying some things, it’s good to know examples of how the nervous system operates.

Unlike the common belief, we don’t just ‘fight or flight.’ We have evolved to function a bit more complex than that. Think of the polyvagal theory as ‘degrees of danger’ your body perceives to be in.

• Ventral Vagal System: this is hopefully most of your day, when you feel safe, calm, playful and curious. This is a specific branch of the parasympathetic nervous system. “I am present” is the key signal circulated around your body.

• Sympathetic System: fight with the threat, flight from the threat, or fawn to the threat. Fawn is similar to people pleasing. “I can overcome this threat” is the key signal circulated around your body. Hence, the three verbs involve an action.

• Dorsal Vagal System: freeze with the hope that the threat won’t harm you (kind of like ‘playing dead’), or faint. Sometimes, freeze can appear as extreme disassociation — not hearing, noticing, or seeing things around you — staring at a blank space with minimal movement. This is a straining state to be in, and the key signal circulated around your body is, “I can’t; there is no escape.” Imagine finding yourself in a room with a serial killer when you have no weapons to protect yourself — it’s hopelessness. Consistently entering this system damages organs.

See below for more details.

We have all experienced these 3 states several times in our lives. Unfortunately, some of us have experienced the extremities of the dorsal vagal system so much that their bodies have been trained to react in extreme ways even in standard day-to-day situations.

Yes, our nervous systems can be trained to react in specific states. Like our muscles, whichever system has been trained the most will be the strongest and overpower the other systems.

• Example: if your parasympathetic nervous system has been trained very well and it’s in a healthy balance with your sympathetic nervous system, you’ll most likely be quite resilient to life’s challenges. Most of the time, you won’t be very reactive to issues, but instead, observant, curious and with a problem-solving attitude. Being grounded would be your default, and your HRV would be quite high.

• Example: if your dorsal vagal system has been trained very well, your body’s default state would be to prepare for its death. When facing challenges, the body won’t try to engage the sympathetic nervous system; it won’t see the point in fighting, fawning or flight-ing. This includes physical challenges; people with chronic depression have a very difficult time building muscle and can easily get injured. These people generally have a very low HRV, somewhere between 10 - 30 (assuming they are relatively fit, have relatively healthy habits and are younger than 40).

Everyone knows one person in their workplace who is a constant people pleaser; their nervous system has been trained to associate saying ‘no’ with ‘danger.’ For some of us, that’s crazy to imagine and saying ‘no’ is a very natural reaction. While growing up, those people had their nervous systems trained differently. Our parents (mostly), school experiences, friends and the culture of the country we grew up in shape how our nervous system responds to different stimuli.

I hope you’re not feeling gloomy, because our nervous system can be retrained. Depending on your background, ice baths, therapy, box breathing, meditation, adaptive memory forming, and some other methods can assist with retraining how your nervous system responds to external stimuli. Pulsetto is one of these tools.

If I haven’t made it clear enough, having a healthy nervous system won’t just help you to enjoy life better; it will also help you to form healthy relationships with others, regulate your hormones, protect your immune system, avoid injuries and chronic pain. On the other hand, having an unhealthy nervous system will dramatically increase your speed of aging (from inner organs to how fast your hair whitens and falls), chances of chronic pain and disease. Important stuff!

How does Pulsetto work?

How does a device stimulate your nervous system?

Firstly, vagus nerve stimulation is not a new concept. In fact, humans have been practising vagus nerve stimulation techniques for centuries. The image below shows how accessible the vagus nerve is — connects from the brain stem (controls survival instincts/reflexes) and passes through our necks.

Some traditional ways to vibrate the vagus nerve:

• Chanting and humming (not like TS’ “Shake It Off,” but more like Mei-lan’s chants)

• Gargling

• Acupuncture

• Deep breathing

• Massaging the neck

• Cold exposure/ice baths

• Eye movements (hence, the effectiveness of EMDR as a therapy)

Pulsetto delivers electrical impulses to the vagus nerve in specific patterns to aid specific conditions like anxiety, chronic stress, burnout, chronic pain, and sleep challenges. These electrical impulses nudge or stimulate the parasympathetic nervous system, so the user can enter a calm state. In the long run, by consistently activating the parasympathetic nervous system, the user will train and strengthen this system over the sympathetic nervous system for a healthier balance. This also leads to an increased HRV.

There is a lot of promising research to show which patterns of stimulation impact which condition, hence Pulsetto has ‘modules’ for anxiety, stress, burnout, chronic pain, sleep, inflammation and gut health. See the image below. That being said, most published studies in this field typically involve small samples (i.e. 20-50 people), short durations (i.e. 4 weeks) and subjective scales of results (i.e. asking users how they felt, rather than a numerical measure). Transcutaneous vagus nerve stimulation products (in general, not just Pulsetto) are learning a lot from their customers and iterating along the way. In short, this is a newly developing field.

86% of surveyed users reported feeling calmer and less stressed; Pulsetto reported that most daily users notice impacts after 2-4 weeks. A study published in October 2025 shows that 70.3% of participants experienced a reduction in symptoms after 4 weeks of use at over 5 intensity levels — anxiety reduced by 45.3% and sleep quality improved by 41%.

There are plenty of reviews you can find online highly recommending Pulsetto, including from people like Kayla Barnes, Dave Asprey, David Sinclair, Nick Engerer, etc — https://pulsetto.tech/pages/reviews. The product has been described as a biohacking tool with a shocking ability to improve HRV (doubling and tripling).

Are you convinced yet?

Broke the bank (seriously), but it was worth healing my nervous system.

The device looks like a choker that wraps around your neck. Each side has two metal half spheres that should contact each side of your neck after you apply some gel. Applying gel to your neck is quite important for you to feel the electrical stimulation (light tingling sensation). Make sure the label “Pulsetto” is facing upwards, the correct way, when you place it around your neck. I noticed that most people don’t place the product around their necks correctly, myself including.

Check this out to see how to wear Pulsetto correctly -

Pairing the device with the Pulsetto App is quite easy. You just need to turn Bluetooth on and press the button on the Pulsetto device until a green light comes on. On the App, when you select a specific session (i.e. anxiety), it will connect to the product.

Tip: wipe off the gel after using Pulsetto, if you don’t want to walk around looking like you are peeling off from a bad sunburn.

What I Loved & What Frustrated Me About Pulsetto

Loved…

1. Customer Support

While using Pulsetto, I engaged with two different customer support reps, and they have both been very helpful. Based on my interactions, I could tell that the team is small-knit and passionate about the product they are delivering. They really care about the problem space, are curious to hear customer stories and improve, transparent, and approach customers with kindness and compassion.

After 5 weeks of running the Pulsetto experiment, I reached out to the team to understand how to best use Pulsetto with a C-PTSD background. The team is based in Lithuania, and despite a huge timezone difference, they wanted to jump on a call to provide face-to-face support and listen to my experiences using the product.

We talked through how to use the product in detail, the different experiences users have depending on their backgrounds, other tools to improve HRV, and exchanged feedback. I really appreciated their time, support and knowledge. They are dealing with sensitive topics and receiving a traumatic story once in every while; it takes courage and empathy to thrive in this environment.

2. In-App Resources

Pulsetto is not just a vagal nerve stimulation device; it’s a product with a “mission to make relaxation, balance, and better health accessible to everyone” (quoted from their website).

The Pulsetto app has plenty of resources to achieve this mission.

• Users can note/monitor their moods, energy levels, sleep quality and symptoms (i.e. heart palpitations, irritability, mood swings).

• Users can select affirmations and meditations from a large album for a variety of purposes. They have different types of meditations, if you prefer something specific, like visualisation, body scan, walking meditation, etc.

• Users can find breathing exercises that range from energy and focus to assisting with asthma, hiccups, sleep, and resolving panic. They have really dived into the research of breathing. This is a very exciting and growing field, especially popularising in the longevity space, where we are discovering that our breathing patterns impact so much of our health.

• Users can complete a CNS Tap Test (tracking the speed of tapping on an object) to measure the readiness/alertness of their nervous system. This can be used to increase focus and optimise performance. While some benefit from calming the nervous system, others benefit from activating it, which gives them motivation and sharpness.

Resourceful, but a simple and easy-to-use app!

3. Research & Expansion

This company is iterating and growing month on month — literally, 🚀.

I am late for this review because some of the “improvements” I would have suggested are already live for users. I noticed this during the call with the support team too; they want to learn, understand their users and uplift the Pulsetto experience ASAP. I cannot imagine how much this agile team will grow in 12 months.

Most vagal nerve stimulation devices have been limited to ‘anxiety’ and ‘stress’ modules. Pulsetto is revolutionising how we view the vagus nerve by showing us how it connects to the rest of our organ systems. You can select ‘gut health’, ‘inflammation’, ‘chronic pain’, and ‘head pain’ as modules. Their breathing and meditation exercises focus on an even broader range to improve physical symptoms. I see a future where Pulsetto can aid in regulating female hormones (i.e. the periods that stop coming due to chronic stress and trauma), aid cardiovascular health (i.e. RHR, blood pressure, etc), reduce stomach acid problems, and almost anything that is linked to the nervous system. And I bet they are already on it!

They are conducting a lot of research studies and experiments, which you can follow on their website - https://pulsetto.tech/pages/ongoing-studies-and-trials

A month ago, there were 2 things I wanted to include under the “Thoughts of Innovation” section below, which the team has already delivered for its users.

Integrations with wearables: Whoop, Oura and Garmin, so you can see what vagus nerve stimulation does to your body in real time. I wish this was available when I was running the Pulsetto experiment. It would have helped me to assess Pulsetto’s impact sooner, rather than trying to rely on subjective feelings.

AI assistant: so you can ask specific questions about your concerns, goals and experiences using Pulsetto. Data collection HealthTech tools and wearables benefit a lot from an AI Coach or Assistant. They help users make sense of complex data, find suitable pathways to address concerns or reach personal goals, and track their progress.

4. Technology

I won’t dive into the stats and details here: Pulsetto works.

For the majority of the Pulsetto users, the effects are not placebo. If you have a wearable like Whoop or Oura, you can track its impacts on your RHR, HRV, sleep quality, daily stress levels, via your monthly cycles (if you’re a woman), via how many times you visit the bathroom a day, via how many (if any) pills are you taking to reduce chronic pain, and via the way you feel.

While there is a small percentage of people who don’t feel Pulsetto’s impact, for most users, including myself, the effects are very clear.

5. Nicely Designed

The device charges quickly and it’s battery life is very long. I only needed to charge it once a week, or every 10 days. It’s lightweight, small and very comfortable. I dropped it twice from clumsiness and it just bounced off the ground with no issues.

Frustrated…

1. Shipping

I am unsure what went wrong with their delivery process, but I’m assuming that the team doesn’t like displaying the “out of stock” button. The product took extremely long to arrive, and there was no communication about when the product would actually arrive. The communication that I received was several automated emails, which ensured that I would receive the product in 2-3 weeks — each email was a replica and didn’t provide an additional update on whether the product was dispatched, shipped, or where it is, etc.

So, after waiting for 3 weeks, as per the email, I doubled-checked that I was not scammed, then reached out to check if my parcel is coming, or if it was simply lost. That’s when I realised that this is a common issue; there are long Reddit threads bashing the company for their product shipping experience. They are probably under a lot of demand and don’t have enough stock to send. I just wish it had been communicated from the beginning. I don’t mind waiting, but I feel that waiting in suspense is a poor experience, which I ended up doing for 6 weeks.

However, with a lot of HealthTech products, I am paying for the technology and quality. I’d rather spend my money on a science-backed product (and wait for shipping) than one with exceptional end-to-end experience but is flimsy, fluffy and filled with fairytales. Hoping the company will improve in this area too.

2. Product-Led Comms

This is the danger field. From my perspective, this is a non-negotiable for a HealthTech company, as communication that is misunderstood, misled, or not delivered properly can have significant consequences. Writing and distributing product comms is also challenging in HealthTech — I understand that. How detailed, technical, visual, repetitive should a company want to be?

Firstly, most Pulsetto articles and communication provide generic info and focus on outcomes (i.e. how it helps others to heal). It’s a bit marketing-skewed. Most product-led comms are about the logistics (i.e. how to pair the device to the app).

I am assuming that most people purchase Pulsetto with a specific goal in mind, but I am not seeing educational guidance on specific issues. It’s almost like there is a ‘one size fits all’ approach with how to use Pulsetto, when there isn’t, evident by myself and by other users who have documented their experiences on Reddit.

Noting that these are most likely startup resource allocation and prioritisation challenges, not a lack of thought from the Pulsetto team.

Their comms also give the impression that everyone comes from a healthy background, and they are using Pulsetto to improve mild conditions. Details are unclear — i.e. what does “anxiety” mean? Is it safe to use Pulsetto during a panic attack (as an extreme version of anxiety)? What about autistic people who get overstimulated during a social event and experience anxiety? What about experiencing anxiety due to psychosis? Is it only good for people who have mild public speaking anxiety? Not to suggest that a fear of public speaking isn’t important to resolve, but my point is that most people with anxiety will assume that Pulsetto may help them, without understanding how Pulsetto defines anxiety, because that is not communicated to them. This is the same for their other modules — i.e. stress vs chronic stress vs post-traumatic stress disorder.

When these terms are undefined, people who may see harm from Pulsetto could try to use it, or they may follow the standard recommended approach (”above 5 intensity, ideally 7, twice a day”) when it doesn’t fit their purpose. Given how impactful stimulating the nervous system can be, they really need to have clear and easily accessible additional information on neurodivergence, mental health disorders, trauma-based disorders, addiction disorders, panic attacks, HRV lower than 25, etc. Even a ‘caution’ statement to highlight that the “recommended” approach is only for health(ier) individuals would be helpful. Or, when the user selects a module, like ‘anxiety’, there could be a pop-up to caution, “if you are experiencing a panic attack….”

Here comes the horror story…

As mentioned in my prior HealthTech/Longevity posts, I have a background of C-PTSD, which I have seen a clinical psychologist for. I am fully functioning in every way, and most people in my life have no idea about my background. The ones who know a bit about my story were shocked because I appeared “amazing, so strong, so confident,” etc. Clearly, these things can’t be seen from the outside.

After going through EMDR therapy and having some ‘off time,’ I was also convinced that I was 95% there (into becoming a fully healthy person). Even symptoms involving sleep quality and chronic pain were completely gone for a long time. Mid this year, all I wanted to resolve was regulating my hormones and avoiding the consistent injuries. After purchasing Whoop, I realised that my physical symptoms were linked to a damaged nervous system, which could be tracked by HRV.

Yes, I was the child who spent a quarter of their time in the dorsal vagal system, half of their time in the sympathetic system, and only a quarter of their time in the parasympathetic system. So, the ‘calming’ function of my body was very much undertrained, and my body knew how to die better than how to relax. It’s a bit disturbing, I know.

I purchased Pulsetto to reverse that. By activating my parasympathetic nervous system, I could train it, strengthen it, and balance my nervous system’s functions. This would mean an improved HRV. That was all in theory.

In practice, it worked. I followed Pulsetto’s instructions — used the appropriate intensity level and completed sessions twice a day. I followed the recommended instructions because I thought those recommendations would suit me (as in, this product was created for someone similar to myself). I thought I would be their ideal customer. Why would someone with no serious nervous system issues purchase this product, especially given the high cost? How many “longevity” followers are out there in this world, chasing for products to boost their health by <5%?

Pulsetto worked incredibly well with long-lasting effects. But…it did the exact opposite of what it was supposed to do.

• 2 weeks of the sleep module ruined my sleep.

  • REM dropped from 2 hours 40 mins to 1 hour 10 mins. Restorative sleep dropped from an average of 4 hours 45 mins to 3 hours 15 mins. I went through 2 weeks of consecutive nightmares, woke up in sweat and a beating heart, and had trouble going back to sleep. Since therapy, I only see generic nightmares once or twice a month, so this was shocking for me. I stopped the experiment, feeling confused.

• 1 week of the stress module pushed me to the edge.

  • I felt a bit reactive and irritated. I did not enjoy socialising and pulled away from people. But I didn’t see a major red flag. While I didn’t notice a dip in my HRV during this period, I noticed it flattened out and was not reaching anywhere near my historical max numbers on rest days. I stopped the experiment, feeling even more confused.

After digging every resource I could find, I decided that the ‘burnout’ module would be the most effective, as it is known to improve HRV and resilience.

• 2 weeks of the burnout module pushed me into self-harming thoughts.

  • It was certainly the most effective. Within 2 weeks, my nervous system travelled back in time and got to a place before I received psychological therapy. As if EMDR had never happened, my long-gone symptoms of C-PTSD came back. It happened so fast; I was in the dorsal vagal system frequently that I couldn’t realise what was happening to me and couldn’t communicate that I needed help. Self-awareness really diminishes in the dorsal vagal state. All I felt was that something was not right, or something was off, so I followed Pulsetto’s instructions again; it recommended that if my symptoms were to come back, I should start a session again. So, I did. Paranoia, confusion, shortness of breath, a growing desire to slice through the layers of my skin…

HIM: Doa. Doa! I’m here. I’m here, breathe. Look at me, I’m here. Hold my hand. That’s it. I’m here. It’s ok.

ME: I need help. Please help me. Help me.

I had a panic attack. After an hour, my partner and I had a chat and reflected on my experiences with Pulsetto. That’s when it all made sense; this product was harming me and my nervous system. Given how rapidly I was worsening, if I continued using the product, I could have tried to harm or kill myself in the next 2 weeks.

That’s serious stuff. That’s very scary. It’s dangerous for Pulsetto’s brand reputation and could have legal/regulatory implications, as I found no information on their website that this could be dangerous for people with C-PTSD or PTSD (which is shocking for a product that aims to heal and strengthen the nervous system).

My HRV crashed back down to 20s. Back to square one. All my hard work was wiped out. In retrospect, I forced it. I really wanted it to heal me and thought I found the magic pill. At the time, there was no information I could find online to suggest that this product could be harmful — not a single negative experience from a user.

More recently, I found another user on Reddit with this comment:

End of the horror story.

Other communication challenges involve the placement of the product. This is another common discussion point on Reddit. The person below was spot on; almost everyone I spoke with about Pulsetto was wondering the same things. Everyone’s necks have a slightly different thickness and length, which makes this a bit challenging too.

BTW: the guides mention that the gel should be the size of a pea, but I only felt the electrical stimulations when the gel was 3x the size of a pea.

Also, during the purchasing funnel, I don’t think it was communicated that buying Pulsetto gel was a must-have. When I selected the Pulsetto device, there was no pop-up or bold writing; “Are you a first-time user? Don’t forget to buy the gel. You must apply gel to use the product.” I met with quite a few frustrated people who had to find a gel after receiving the product.

3. Bright LED Light

Very small comment about the product design, but the bright green light that turns on once the device is turned on does not turn off. It keeps on shining bright green, even at night, when you are trying to use the ‘sleep’ module to fall asleep. Lights are not good when you are trying to fall asleep. I wish it dimmed down or turned off once a module began playing.

Thoughts of Innovation…

1. Onboarding Experience

Similar to the product-led comms, I thought the onboarding experience was quite high-levelled and generic. I wish it was more interactive and detailed. I couldn’t decide which module to select, because I wasn’t actively experiencing stress, anxiety, burnout, chronic pain, or sleep issues. What if you’re someone who just wants to become more resilient and improve their HRV? What if you are using this product to heal trauma? What if you desire more sharpness, motivation and focus during the day? These simple categories don’t fit into a lot of cases, and I strongly suspect that if one has a type of issue to work on, they will also experience other issues. For example, how many people with chronic pain ONLY have chronic pain (with no inflammation, gut issues, sleep issues, stress, etc)? I would argue that it’s almost none. Maybe from a stimulation perspective, it doesn’t matter which module you select, or where you start your exploration, but if so, this needs to be communicated clearly.

I expected a free-form textbox to write exactly what my concerns and goals were, along with describing my health history (i.e. did I try to commit suicide before, do I have a brain injury, eczema or acne on the neck, etc). Afterwards, I expected an ‘AI Assistant’ (or another technology, or someone from their support team, whatever is feasible) to respond with an example personalised plan that I can follow, what to expect (what is realistic for me), and some cautions (i.e. if you experience XYZ, stop immediately and contact us or your psychologist).

These responses may not be 100% accurate, but they will be more accurate than the generic advice that gets sent to everyone. This type of onboarding flow can also mitigate risks. Lastly, it can help them collect feedback on their ideal customer. Pulsetto is still a new product in the market with a growing global presence. I suspect their ‘main customer’ pool has changed throughout the last 4 years and will continue to change slightly.

2. App That Adjusts With User Feedback

Following an enhanced onboarding experience, I would love Pulsetto to collect regular feedback on how the user is impacted by the stimulations.

First step in achieving this could be… If the user is reporting distress, their heart rate and breathing rate are increasing during a Pulsetto session, then the App could send information back to the user to suggest lowering intensity, volume of stimulating sessions, changing to a different module, etc.

I believe Pulsetto is already moving towards this direction, as they have recently announced integrations with Whoop, Oura and Garmin, which track sleep quality metrics, stress response, breathing, HRV, RHR and recovery.*

A more advanced stage could be… Implementing real-time adjustments in stimulating sessions via collecting feedback in real time, based on a user’s biological responses.

*The current downside to this solution is that not every user has a Whoop, Oura or Garmin watch. This is a similar challenge with other HealthTech wearables; the industry is becoming a giant ecosystem, and to get the best out of their data, users feel the need to buy every product in the monopoly, without having the finances to do so. Not a criticism of Pulsetto; this is just the way the wider industry is heading towards, where living past 100 (a tier) or 120 (another tier) really shows your social status (unless you live in a small and isolated town with very minimal exposure to the modern foods, drinks, cleaning devices, clothes, cosmetics, etc).

3. Collaboration with Professionals

Despite the product not being FDA-approved, I think there is so much potential for Pulsetto to be recommended and/or monitored by professionals. I can see a world where Pulsetto collaborated with psychologists, psychiatrists, dieticians, sleep support professionals, and other healthcare professionals. By bringing a professional on board with your experiment, you can also reduce risks for getting harmed by a vagus stimulator — i.e. someone can help monitor your wellbeing.

I also wondered if Pulsetto could be used during certain therapies, like DBR or EMDR, to enhance its effects.

4. More Modules!

Adding more modules is very challenging, time-consuming, resource-consuming and risky work. I acknowledge that. I also see how quickly Pulsetto is growing and iterating, so no doubt they are already on their way to increasing the product’s capabilities.

Some suggestions: trauma module, sharpness/alertness module, overstimulation module, anger module, depression module, hormone regulation (or PMS) module, manic bipolar module, postpartum depression module, addiction module, etc.

I would also love to see research diving into different types of mental health disorders, brain injuries, dementia, Parkinson’s, and neurodivergence.

5. Continuous Monitoring

Imagine Pulsetto in a decade later. Like a blood glucose monitoring device that sticks on your arm, what if Pulsetto could be these lightweight little metal discs that stick on both sides of your neck, non-invasive and comfortable, monitoring your vagal nerve activity all day?

What if it collected real-time feedback from its users, noticed when the individual entered into panic, asked for permission to intervene, and gently began stimulating to calm the user? This could be incredible for resolving phobias and trigger-based trauma responses, improving focus and alertness, building daily resilience and overcoming daily challenges (i.e. public speaking, work conflict, etc).

Should You Buy Pulsetto?

Hope I did not cause too much fear, but I did want to send a warning, because I would have really appreciated it if I came across any information of this sort. So, by writing this article, I hope to be picked up by some AI model and feed alternative information and experience for future researchers.

It was very clear to me that Pulsetto worked extremely effectively and had medium-term lasting effects. For example, my sleep continued to be of poor quality for 2 months after ending the ‘sleep module’ experiment. 2 weeks of stimulation had impacts for 2 months.

Imagine how positive the impacts could have been if it were the other way around. So, given the amount of research that has gone into shaping Pulsetto, the user reviews, and the strong support from the longevity community, I still believe that for most users (with healthy backgrounds), the effects will be positive and lasting.

I would describe the ideal customer for Pulsetto to be a regular person with relatively healthy upbringing (maybe with some mild adversity) who is experiencing day-to-day mild stressors, like annoying boss, fear (not phobia) of public speaking, mild social discomfort, going through a break-up, preparing for exams, stressing about finances, stressing about parenthood, arguing with siblings, etc. I’m not discrediting these experiences, but referring to them as part of being human and experiencing life. We can’t expect to live with no challenges, and from the perspective of someone with heavy complex trauma, these are adversities to be grateful for, as they can even build your resilience, personality and confidence in the long run, especially if you can overcome them. So, if you are this person, then Pulsetto is probably the right fit for you.

I highly recommend planning carefully on how you will use Pulsetto, rather than blindly following generic recommendations. Test it out in low intensity for only once a day first, carefully track and monitor your wellbeing, then slowly increase your exposure.

I would be more cautious if you don’t have wearables or a reliable source of tracking your wellbeing, as in the moment, it may not be very easy to tell if your nervous system is getting strained. Likewise, if you are a woman starting new, it might be best to have your initial exposure after your monthly period, so you don’t confuse any pre-period mood swings or low mood with the impacts of Pulsetto.

I would be very cautious if you have a background (even if it was 5 years ago) of C-PTSD, PTSD, mental health disorders, addiction disorders, suicide, self-harming addictions, and neurodivergence. I would involve a psychologist in the process for close monitoring of your wellbeing. Additionally, if your HRV is consistently dipping lower than 25, be very cautious not to strain your nervous system.

After chatting with the Pulsetto team, I realised they were also discovering that others with C-PTSD and PTSD backgrounds have similar experiences to mine. Here were some recommendations I received on the call that are more specific to a traumatic background…

• Use lower intensity (1-2) and shorter sessions (5 minutes)

• Start with the sleep module, as that is the best-tolerated module

• Ensure that you are in an environment where you feel safe, and there is someone around who you view as loving, protective and safe

• Use either once a day or once every second day to get used to your nervous system getting stretched (like a muscle, you don’t want to overstretch by doing the splits if you have never even touched your toes before)

• Build up your resilience before using Pulsetto, which is more of an advanced device to strengthen the nervous system — an intermediary approach would be to do box breathing or meditations

  • In my case, I have not been able to successfully do box breathing, so in retrospect, I should have never purchased this device

• If you feel triggered, or if past traumatic memories, nightmares, behaviours, or thought-patterns repeat, stop immediately and take a break from using the device

Road to Recovery

After chatting with the Pulsetto support team, I reflected back on my experiences. I was most likely overstimulated by stretching a very weak nervous system too much, too soon. We don’t know how it brought up old memories, nightmares, reflexes and thought-patterns that were long gone with EMDR. Science isn’t there to explain all the mysteries of the brain stem yet. EMDR is so powerful that the patient does not need to consciously force themselves to feel or think in healthy ways — after each session, the new ways of existing come quite naturally. But here, we discovered that vagal nerve stimulation can be even more powerful.

Let me take some responsibility back. I should have been alarmed after the first experiment with the sleep module. I missed some signs in the beginning and assumed maybe my period was coming, and that’s why my mood was off. I defaulted to old ways of thinking when assessing the effectiveness of Pulsetto; the classic trauma-based thought pattern of “everyone is right, I am wrong, I am the problem, so I need to ignore my feelings and follow the plan that everyone else is following.” Even at the beginning, when I didn’t find an exact match (module) to my concerns, I should have simply reached out to the team to confirm that I can use this device before proceeding. Lastly, throughout this whole experiment, I should have kept my partner in the loop, talking about my feelings more, so he could keep a close eye out for me.

More is not better. I injured my nervous system over 5 weeks. I f*cked up and am still experiencing the impacts of this mild injury. What a disappointment and setback. But it was a risk I accepted when deciding to experiment with various tools to heal my nervous system. As mentioned in a prior post, tripling or quadrupling my HRV is a lifetime goal, not restricted to a 1-2 years of timeframe. My only regret is not recognising and stopping the experiment earlier.

Overall, it’s a bummer how complex C-PTSD is; as the name suggests, “complex post-traumatic stress disorder.” While there are tools coming available for anxiety and depression in the HealthTech industry, C-PTSD is a completely different type of (physical) injury that requires a unique method of care and resources. When experimenting with the wrong tool or methods, it can even re-traumatise you.

I also want to express gratitude for having a safe person who supports me to try new things. The reality is that most people with C-PTSD don’t have that to heal themselves and struggle immensely to even form friendships or have the finances to see a psychologist. For most people, there are layers and layers of damage which make it very difficult to heal, let alone experiment with cool gadgets like Pulsetto.

From Pulsetto’s perspective, there are so many test cases to mitigate health risk to their users. They are operating in a complicated and challenging space where prioritising resources can make significant impacts. C-PTSD is challenging even for clinical psychologists to aid, as each person’s nervous system and brain are uniquely wired based on their traumatic experiences and how they have interpreted those experiences as a child.

Pulsetto has helped hundreds of thousands of people around the world, and as their customer base grows in size, they start to receive a larger variety of users. As a small start-up, sometimes, they are ahead of the learning curve. Other times, they learn via the experiences of their users and do their best to iterate fast. For example, they already kicked off studies involving people with PTSD. So, perhaps next year, I may receive more support from the product.

Lastly, as Nassim Taleb wrote, “individuals are designed to make errors for the greater good,” so “take a heroic route for the benefit of the collective…as narrowly or broadly defined as you want” (Antifragile). I’m grateful to have gone through this experience, learned some lessons, shared my feedback with the Pulsetto team, and shared my story with potential users.

The Pulsetto chapter is clearly closed for me. I am unsure when I will give this product a second chance. At the end of last week, my sleep quality had fully recovered from the damage. I predict I will fully recover from the other modules by the end of this year; I’ve seen a few promising signs already at the end of last week. This is currently what I am working towards.

There will be a Round 2: “The Husband Experiment.”

While I continue to recover, David will be experimenting with Pulsetto. Hoping he’ll remain sane and grounded; while he’s had some adverse childhood experiences, he hasn’t shown physical symptoms of trauma in the way that I had and has a very good HRV. He is one of the most resilient people I know. I will watch out for him to make sure he’s alright, and hopefully report sometime next year for a Part 2 of Pulsetto Review.

All the images I use have been generated using deepai.org (the pop art generator). 🦸‍♀️

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It’s a dark, complex thing in the clouds that some of us don’t want to deal with. We prefer to deal with what we can easily track and influence, hence the growing popularity of gyms, nutritional advice, and blood tests. Over the past 5 years, we’ve made enormous jumps in sleep tracking, genetics and epigenetics testing. In fact, the more we test and track our bodies, the more we understand that there is a connection between each organ, and once one system is disrupted in our biology, the rest follows in a domino effect.

It’s 2025, and we have even begun to work with artificial intelligence, imagining the future integrated with generative AI. Now, it’s time to (better) understand our intelligence — our brains. No matter how complex it is, we can no longer ignore our brains. The future will be a reflection of our brains.

The early 2010s marked the birth of Whoop, Oura and other similar wearable companies. A decade later, we have the privilege to experiment with and experience the products offered by companies like Pulsetto, InBrain Neuroelectronics, Flow, Neurovizr, Neurable, Precision Neuro, and Neurode. These companies have a few things in common:

• They aim to better understand and interact with our brains in a personalised and drug-free way, with the help of AI, so we can uplift our cognitive ability (whether via reducing stress, improving sleep quality, guiding our focus, or another way).

• They can impact our brain longevity, which means preventing (or delaying) the leading cause of death in Australia (dementia), either directly or indirectly.

• They recognise the impact of chronic stress and trauma on the brain.

• They are laying the foundation for a human-brain interface, which could have applications beyond our imagination.

• And almost all of them start with ‘Neuro’ (which makes a good tongue-twister and the job of their marketing department challenging).

In this post, I want to focus on an Australian-based start-up, Neurode.

Meet Neurode: a non-invasive, drug-free, personalised headband for managing ADHD symptoms, currently in clinical development and trials.

How does it work in simple terms?

The product is a light headband that stimulates the prefrontal cortex of the brain, which is responsible for higher-level cognitive functions (i.e planning, decision-making, problem-solving, working memory, impulse control and emotional regulation). It has sensors that detect when you lose focus and get distracted, which then trigger stimulation (so you can regain your focus).

The prefrontal cortex is also known as the brain’s “executive control centre,” as it allows one to complete complex tasks like switching between contexts, managing conflicting thoughts, conceptualising time, following through goals and decision-making. This part of the brain is unregulated (with weaker function or structure/size) for people with ADHD.

Some fun facts:

• There are 3 types of ADHD: inattentive, hyperactive-impulsive, and combined.

• About 9.6% of school-age children aged 6 to 11 years and 13.6% of adolescents aged 12 to 17 years in America are estimated to have ADHD.

• 1 in 20 children in Australia is estimated to have ADHD. There is reported to be more than a million people (including adults) with diagnosable ADHD.

• In America, nearly two-thirds of children with ADHD have at least one other condition; 32.7% anxiety, 16.8% depression, 13.7% autism, 1.2% Tourette’s, and 45% a learning disorder.

• About 65% of ADHD cases diagnosed in childhood persist into adulthood.

• A relatively large number of ADHD diagnoses get re-diagnosed in adulthood as bipolar and borderline personality disorder.

• Studies suggest that people with ADHD are at least 1.5x more likely to develop substance abuse disorders.

• ADHD is irrelevant to a person’s IQ level.

• Increasing studies are finding links between gut microbiome imbalance and prevalence of ADHD — compositional differences of the types of bacteria in the gut may contribute to brain functioning differences and symptoms of ADHD. For example, Bacteriodes species that improve the integrity of the intestinal barrier were found in lower amounts in people with ADHD. Another example comes from an experiment where the gut microbiome of people with ADHD was transferred to mice, causing a change in behaviour and brain activity (which mimics ADHD symptoms).

Below is a scan that shows the difference between an ADHD and a non-ADHD brain during a group experiment. The participants went through an attention task called “go/no go.” The ADHD group showed diminished activation, while the non-ADHD group showed “increased activation in the following anatomical regions: bilateral on inferior frontal gyrus, insula, postcentral gyrus, putamen, caudate, thalamus, anterior cingulate cortex, precuneus, globus ballidus and inferior temporal gyrus.” Read the full study here. The activity in brain circuits is clearly visible and trackable.

Neurode uses fNIRS (Functional Near-Infrared Spectroscopy), which is a neuroimaging technique that measures hemodynamics (changes in blood oxygenation) in the brain using near-infrared light. This is an incredibly promising technology on its way to becoming a standard diagnostic tool for not just ADHD, but also for other neurodiversity and mental health disorders. Its accuracy in trials is mind-blowing; it can tell the differences between borderline personality disorder, bipolar, and manic personality disorder. It can tell schizophrenia and psychosis apart. These are similar and complex disorders that even psychologists can have a hard time diagnosing via talk therapy, hence the cases of misdiagnosis.

The stimulating technology is tRNS (transcranial random noise stimulation), which is a low-intensity alternating current with a randomised frequency applied to the scalp of the user. These random currents interfere with the brain’s existing electrical activity, which can help neurons to activate. Very exciting technology!

In case you are wondering for your non ADHD friend, yes, theoretically, this product would work for anyone needing to be nudged to concentrate more effectively. You don’t need to be diagnosed with ADHD to get the benefits.

Can you imagine how much more you could get out of your brain power if you were just a little sharper? Let me give you an example. I was a child who could add and subtract numbers up to 20 at age 2. But I failed year 1 and was told to repeat it, simply because I was too bored to complete the maths exams and lost track of time thinking about my LEGO robot, Elo. My mum used to complain that the concept of gravity took me until age 7 to learn. Almost every day, I would grab a cup of water, and by the time I walked into the living room (say, 2 metres), I would suddenly remember something exciting, throw my hands in the air, spilling all the liquid.

I felt like I discovered myself for the first time after taking ADHD medication. I distinctly remember the moment of sitting through my first exam after the pills; a wave of confidence, sharpness, intention and awareness of the world hit my brain. I remember the time passing beat by beat, instead of a long drag followed by a sudden rush and shock. I handed my test with certainty for the first time, not with embarrassment. I looked inside my teacher’s eyes and said, “I think I got full marks.” The little me felt her potential for the first time.

I think all of us, ADHD or not, need to have a moment in our lives when we feel in our hearts that we are so much more capable than we have ever imagined.

I’ve been following the journey of Neurode since 2023. I signed up for their waiting list ages ago and was a bit bummed to find out that they packed up their business and moved to the US. Unsurprising, and couldn’t blame their choice.

To summarise, the regulatory environment for HealthTech products in Australia is a major financial expense that costs a lot of resources, effort and time. Acknowledging that the TGA (Therapeutic Goods Administration) ensures patient safety; we need regulations to trust the healthcare system. Not denying that. However, the effort is often unjustifiable when the market is too small, in comparison to the US. Jumping through too many hoops can also become a barrier for existing HealthTech companies to expand via innovation and experimentation. Additionally, funding for HealthTech startups in Australia is quite limited. If you’re interested, check out the Australian Medical Device Venture Investment Summary Report. There is a huge gap between how much funding has been out there for HealthTech companies and how much was needed for these companies to grow. The investment is also heavily skewed towards late-stage ventures, leaving start-ups underfunded. While these are the main reasons, there is one more challenge that I have to mention. HealthTech innovation in Australia is culturally not as supported as in the US or UK due to a fear/dislike of disrupting established workflows; the process of gaining trust and adoption from medical professionals faces a lot of resistance. If you are interested, another report you can read, which mentions these issues, is the Medical Research Commercialisation Landscape Report. As a founder, when you weigh the pros and cons, it makes more sense to scale your business idea overseas.

Anyway, I received an email from Neurode a month ago about a product test group in Sydney. I was really excited to have this experience, and I also wanted to sit through an attention test after almost 20 years. Time to time, a part of me had wondered if I really had ADHD, or if my symptoms could simply be justified by C-PTSD. Was it hyperactivity or hyper-vigilance? Was it inattention or disassociation? How come a few months after I began taking the ADHD pills, my behaviour has drastically changed, which led to a diagnosis of Tourette’s Syndrome? It’s totally possible to have both ADHD and C-PTSD, but there is a reason why C-PTSD is described as ‘acquired neurodivergence.’ Mysteries of the past. I already needed to get a Dexa Scan and see a friend, so I justified flying to Sydney for an overnight trip.

Here’s how the product testing went

3 participants booked the 6 pm session; I was one of them. The lights in the room were dimmed (which I found very comfortable for my eyes), so the person on duty could see the lights coming from the headband.

We wore the Neurode headbands and were asked to complete some attention challenges on a computer. We were given 2x 1-hour blocks (10 min break in between) to complete these challenges with a questionnaire at the start and end of each mini task/activity to check how I felt (i.e. how bored, tired, overwhelmed I was). We were informed that the Neurode headband would actively work as we were solving these challenges. So, supposedly, we would become better at completing each mini task towards the end of each session (i.e if the first 2 minutes were very hard, then the last 2 minutes would feel easier)?

What are these challenges?

Imagine a bunch of 2-5 minute games that ask you to switch between different tasks, remember sequences of letters/numbers, spot the difference in images, etc. See below for some examples.

I find these tasks to be interesting and fun at the beginning, and generally feel tired, frustrated and slightly overwhelmed after 30-45 minutes (depending on the type of challenge, so how difficult I perceive it to be). I have always wondered how a neurotypical person would perform during these tasks. Would they also feel frustrated? With what accuracy would they be able to complete such tasks?

This experience took me back to my childhood memories. Especially for 3 or 4 (from about 20 tasks), I felt like I was completely wasting my time — wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong…..for about 3 minutes. But the frustration wasn’t about being wrong; it was about the fact that a millisecond after each wrong answer, I knew that I had made a mistake that I never intended to make. It’s the feeling of, “d*mn, no, no I didn’t mean that, can we go back,” 80 times in a row. For example, I successfully clicked on every ‘3’ when I was supposed to click on every other number but 3. Or, I stared at a screen for 3 minutes to see which direction a pool of fish was moving towards, when I was full-heartedly certain that the fish were actually not moving anywhere. I swore and laughed at myself multiple times. A very humbling experience, especially because I had assumed I would have an easy time because my ADHD symptoms have been mostly long gone. By the end of the night, I felt that I could comfortably re-diagnose myself.

Some interesting observations

Did the Neurode headband improve my resilience?

The product aimed to enable better focus, but I couldn’t help noticing something very interesting, perhaps an alternative use case or benefit. At the start of each 1-hour block, our task was to meditate (breathe in stillness) for 5 minutes. I had very low confidence and felt uncomfortable starting these tasks, due to my prior negative experiences with meditation and box breathing.

A bit of a spoiler to a future article: as part of my ‘improving HRV experiments,’ I tried both meditation and box breathing. These are highly recommended strategies with a massive amount of research backing, to build resilience. However, with my C-PTSD background, I often had the opposite experience of ‘calm,’ resulting in panic and anxious crying within the first 2 minutes. As the experiment resulted poorly, I stopped these exercises and haven’t tried them since for almost 3 months.

For an unexplainable reason, I was alright for 5 minutes of breathing in stillness. It didn’t feel good. But it didn’t feel bad either. And Whoop did not show my heart rate peak on Zone 1 during this exercise either. Very interesting. Perhaps my efforts over the past 3 months to uplift my HRV have resulted in growing more resilient, hence I no longer react terribly to such exercises. Maybe. That’s one hypothesis.

However, another interesting thing happened later that night. Despite getting on an airplane, with 6 hours of sleep (to catch the early plane), eating from a restaurant, having a headache (from the exercises), eating a chocolate bar before bed time, not drinking enough water during a hot day, and sleeping late — all the behaviours which have proven to lower my HRV, even when done independently from each other — the next morning, my HRV remained the same in mid 30s. I actually had great restorative sleep. Yes, I still did my nightly NSDR, but there is no way that having this many negatively-impacting behaviours did not lower my HRV significantly.

Even more interesting, the following day, I also had 6 hours of sleep (unusually low amount for me) to catch the early plane and ate from a cafe, but my HRV remained steady for the 2nd time in a row. I even had a better sleep quality with over 5 hours of restorative sleep. This fascinated and left me with a lot of questions to ponder over.

Could Neurode improve nervous system resiliency (HRV)? Or, did it improve my sleep quality, which resulted in a good HRV? If the evidence holds up, could this become another use case for the product? There are not enough studies to show the link between ADHD and HRV, but we know that poor emotional regulation is a symptom of ADHD. Could there be a link?

The fit matters a lot!

As someone used to wearing accessories quite tightly, due to being uncomfortable with the feeling of something touching my skin (if it’s very tight, then the object becomes ‘one with my skin’ and stops rubbing, so I feel less uncomfortable), I wanted a snug fit around my head. After having a chat with a few people in the team, I realised that I’m the first person who complained about getting a headache from the headband.

I have to be honest: the headache began about 30 minutes into each 1-hour block and increased to an unbearable level, making it very difficult for me to complete the last task of each session. The headband was not necessarily uncomfortable — I didn’t feel anything compressing my head — so I didn’t suspect that the snug fit may have caused the headache. However, during the 2nd session, the person supervising asked me to wear it quite loose, and after doing so, some of my headache went away.

It seems like this is a niche problem, but my conclusion was that the fit of the headband matters a lot, and in this case, wearing it loose makes the experience more comfortable.

The person supervising also checked the angle of our headbands a few times to ensure that they’re positioned correctly. I had similar experiences with the Pulsetto team, where the customer support rep was very particular about the placement of the stimulating device on my neck to receive the best treatment. Seems to be a common theme with stimulating wearables. Not a criticism, but something to be careful of, as a user.

In the moment, it was hard to tell whether the device was actually helping

No surprises here. With any stimulating device, you need consistency — the brain is a muscle, and it needs to be regularly trained for improvements. I found out that most Neurode users report feeling results 3-8 weeks after regular use. The recommended amount is 20 minutes a day for +3 days a week.

So, while I would have loved to say Neurode helped me nail down each task like a neurotypical person, I could not tell whether the device was helping. My performance was based on the type of activity I had to complete — some were harder, while others were easier. There were only 2 tasks that I felt I performed better towards the end of the session (as in, during the first half, I felt lost, and during the second half, I began to respond better), but that could also be attributed to getting used to how the activity worked. So, to set the right expectations, don’t expect magic overnight (and probably not over 1 week either).

Lastly, a compliment I usually give to credible HealthTech companies is the amount of data and research they share with their users — transparency. Not a fan of high-level explanations, as in health, the specifics behind the ‘how’ a product works make the biggest difference; details and science-backed evidence are key to building trust. Love that Neurode already shares some of their scientific studies with their customers (despite being new in the market), and I would like to continue seeing that from them.

There is some very promising and interesting stuff being developed, which is taking us one step closer to understanding our brains. I was grateful to be a part of the product testing group for Neurode and keen to continue following this start-up’s journey as they grow and evolve. Neurode brings to the hands of consumers a technology that carries so much potential, and I believe managing ADHD is only the beginning.

It would be great to see psychologists recommending a product like Neurode to their ADHD patients, along with doing CBT (cognitive behavioural therapy). When I was 6, the only option available was medication (or failing and repeating classes in a highly competitive country, Turkey, where kids are pressured into a race) — I did not even sit through CBT to talk through my challenges. We are living in times with so many more options, and we are privileged to have the opportunity to experiment with many tools to figure out the best way of living.

“Imagine what the world looks like when we understand how our brain works” — Neurode’s vision.

I can, but cannot fully imagine. Is understanding how our brains work a key to human evolution? If we can detect signals from our brains and provide signals back to alter their functioning, non-invasively, what else can we do? Are we coming to times when our brains don’t control us, but instead, interact and provide feedback (in a way that reaches our awareness)? How would that impact the way we store and utilise memories in our brains and the rest of our bodies? What would that mean for not just our cognitive health, but also our vision, hearing, nervous system and hormonal health? Will AI help us to evolve in an alien way that we’ve imagined over science fiction movies (say, telepathy)?

I am not stating or questioning anything novel or ground-breaking, but instead suggesting that we may be closer to a different way of existing than what we imagine now. Understanding our brains isn’t just about developing the next drug or preventing dementia, even though those could be revolutionary by themselves. This process — with the help of AI — can lead to a super-intelligent version of ourselves, starting with hyper self-awareness. And I can’t wait to see ourselves on this journey.

All the images I use have been generated using deepai.org (the pop art generator). 🦸‍♀️

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• You can’t prepare much for it, because the ultimate goal is to understand the way you think through challenges. This is unlike some interviews in tech, where the hiring manager expects you to tell a story (about how you were challenged in the past) with a happy ending involving impressive metrics.

• Product interviews are mostly not about the past; they are about the present moment, where crafted and memorised scripts won’t get you through the door.

• As product interviews aim to reveal your product mindset and how you communicate your thoughts/ideas, there usually isn’t a right solution (or response to questions). This is also contrary to other interviews in tech, where the hiring manager may expect specific answers to some of their questions, and getting them right proves your skills and experience in the field.

Let’s assume that you passed through the initial door; let’s skip ahead to your interview with the hiring manager. Expect 3 different types of questions.

1) Standard “who are you” questions

These are the opening questions to any interview. The goal is to understand your background, experience, interests and skills at a high level.

• Tell me about yourself

• What draws you to XXX company (and why are you leaving your current company)

Short and sweet, easy with no tricks or surprises.

As someone transitioning into a product role, the only additional question that you will get is “why product management?” Every interview I joined to land my first role had this question. You can prep for it and see my “why do you want to be a product manager” article as a guide.

Additionally, you may also want to prepare for “why this industry?” Why do you want to work in the EdTech/HealthTech/crypto space?

2) “Tell me about a time…” questions (or, “how would you…?”)

A few of these questions will be thrown out to flesh out your experience and skills. I have observed that in product interviews, these questions address the riskiest assumptions (like in the product discovery process). In your case, the riskiest assumptions all relate to your lack of product management experience.

You can safely answer these questions with the famous STAR method (situation, task, action and result). The key is to shape your answers to be related to product management and use product terminology. Some examples…

• “How would you ensure you are not a blocker to the tech team?”

• “Tell me about a time you dealt with a conflict of ideas involving customers/users.”

• “Tell me about a time you had to make a decision in ambiguity, without a lot of data backing.”

• “How would you prioritise resources when you have two important things to do but can’t do them both?”

In case nobody told you yet (or dared to put it in writing), you don’t need to tell about a time that has actually happened to you with every detail being accurate. The more junior you are in your career, the fewer options you have in the job market (meaning, a higher chance that you’ll not end up in a flash company with a unicorn team), the fewer managers you’ll work under, and the less variety of experiences you have. You may have put up with a toxic manager who moved the goal post 5 times within a quarter, and nobody in your team delivered. You may have put up with an incompetent stakeholder, driven by their ego (instead of data) and expected you to nod along (instead of challenging back).

In real life, some things don’t have happy endings to fit into a STAR method for your future interviews. Make one up. Imagine the same ‘situation,’ ‘task’, and ‘action,’ but end your story with a more positive result.

“How would you…” questions are a bit more challenging when you don’t have a lot of product experience. My tip is to not complicate things; think in basic terms.

For example, “how would you ensure you are not a blocker to the tech team” can also be rephrased as, “how would you ensure you are not a blocker to any team.” When I was in marketing, having strong alignment on priorities and regular cadences to communicate progress on projects ensured I didn’t have dependencies built up on my plate. Guess what? Alignment on priorities and communication also helps the tech team. You don’t need to ponder over the words “tech team” too much.

3) Product role-play questions (or “technical” questions)

This is honestly the best part of the interview. In my opinion, these questions make product interviews fun, interesting and challenging. However, this is also the part where most new PMs feel shocked (unprepared).

In this section, you are expected to role-play as a product manager; so, the best responses will come from…

1. Clarity of thought (connect with Shreyas Doshi on LinkedIn, as he has thought-provoking posts on this)

2. Clear, concise and engaging communication (which mostly comes from clarity of thought)

3. Product mindset

Some role-play questions are quite obvious, while others appear to be “fun and casual chat,” but the follow-up question will turn into a role-play. Some examples you may want to practise…

• “How would you design a solution for someone trying to communicate with the new human settlement on Mars?”

• “What would happen if Google were no longer able to see your location?”

• “How many cars are there in Sydney?”

• “What is your favourite product?” OR “What’s a product you use every day?” (Pause) “Why?” (Pause) “How would you make it 10x more profitable/engaging?”

• “How would you explain what LLMs are to a 5/90 years old?”

• “What’s a new skill/fact/information you recently learned? Can you teach me?” OR “What’s a recipe you love making? Can you teach me?”

• “Our active user numbers are down. Senior stakeholders are concerned. We want you, as the new PM, to fix this. How would you go about it?”

Common mistakes people make when responding to these questions:

• Processing the question in very literal terms and overthinking the response

  • These questions don’t have any “correct” answers. No one is going to fact-check the number of cars or windows in New York, or the population of China. It doesn’t matter if “the new human settlement” is on the Moon, on Mars, or on Saturn’s rings. If you miss a step when describing how you bake a strawberry crumble, no one will care. Stop stressing over factual details.

  • You could be completely off the exact number and still respond impressively, by focusing on the product mindset. What truly matters is the way you think through these problems.

• Only saying “I haven’t done this before” (and freezing) 😬

  • This links back to my first point — thinking through questions too literally. The chances are, you haven’t done most things in product (because you don’t have the experience), but you will receive questions as if you have these experiences. You can’t just shut the question down.

  • Someone once told me that hearing questions like “how do you ensure you are not a blocker to the tech team” is frustrating, because “it’s obvious that they haven’t spent much time working with the tech team, and the hiring manager already knows that they haven’t been a PM before. So why ask?” The hiring manager isn’t trying to rub your lack of experience in your face. They are trying to understand if you can be adaptable by using your current knowledge and skills. You may not have done that specific thing before, but maybe you have done a similar thing in your existing role, or watched someone else in your team do something similar. Rephrase the question in your mind as “how could you ensure…”

  • Tip: being a product manager involves knowing so much and so little at the same time. No matter how experienced you are, things always change around you. There will always be a new technology, team restructure, funding issue, goal, social change (which may impact your target customer), economic change (which may impact your sales), Covid (which took a hit to the tourism products), and another black swan event. As a PM, you will never know everything (actually, you will operate in ambiguous environments way more than you’d like to), so adaptability is a key quality.

• Impulsivity — the urge to jump to a conclusion

  • Panic and pressure to impress can often result in impulsivity, a response without thought. Blurting out, “1,657,920” for the number of cars in Sydney shows nothing other than impulsivity. Don’t fall into the trap of thinking that if you can guess the right answer, you’ll be hired.

  • In product role-play questions, your answer will often lead to follow-up questions to further unpack and challenge your thinking. Your initial response should strategically set you up to be at an advantage in the following questions.

  • Tip 1: take your time when thinking and responding. Let go of the anxiety and self-imposed pressure to move through the interview questions fast. You are allowed to (and encouraged to) take a deep breath, reflect, feel curiosity (ask questions for clarification), then respond with confidence.

  • Tip 2: smile. 😁 It’s funny to see how people’s faces suddenly tense up when they receive a question they haven’t memorised the answer for.

• Rambling on and on and on and and and actually, on and also, on and on……

  • See the point above. I think the root cause of rambling is a lack of calm and thought. People pleasing, panic, and insecurities give you the illusion that more is better. So, you start using the words “also,” “actually,” “and,” “by the way,” “this too,” to add more and more to your response.

  • Confusion is contagious. If you are trying to communicate while feeling confused and overwhelmed, your listeners will hear the meaning behind your words less and feel your energy more.

  • Tip 1: ground yourself. Before the interview, take 5-10 minutes to lower your heart beat and respiration rate, and feel in tune with your body. Create calm for your mind (and nervous system), whether by box breathing, a short meditation, hugging and rocking your body, counting sheep, humming, or another technique. We often start interviews on edge without even realising; it’s self-sabotaging. The worst is that the more we desire to work for a specific company, the more tense we feel.

  • Tip 2: view life as a game of tennis. Ok, you may want to read the book, “The Inner Game of Tennis” by W Timothy Gallwey first. While it’s got nothing to do with product management, it will shape your product mindset. This was a life-changing book which helped me grow up. Viewing life (or in this case, your interview) “as a game of tennis” will help you enjoy the interview, feel creative, courageous and curious. Enter the scene for the experience (to learn something, receive feedback, feel curious, connect with new people and assess if they are right for you). We often enter into the interview scene with the goal of proving ourselves (that we are good enough for the role) to the hiring manager. This leads to an overemphasis on avoiding mistakes, rather than enjoying the time and being mindful. The attitude and mindset you bring to the scene matter a lot, much more than the accuracy of your answers.

  • Update: I recently came across Lenny’s “definitive guide to mastering product sense questions” article, which highlights the importance of structuring your answers in an interview. Bookmarked for my future interview practice. Very valuable resource.

• Trying to prove that they are intelligent enough to take on the role

  • This is why I don’t like describing these “role play” questions as “technical” or as “intelligence tests” — sounds intimidating. It leads people to show off their intelligence by over-engineering ideas (by complicating concepts), instead of focusing on clear and concise communication. Simple and engaging is better than word knots.

  • Also, let me make something crystal clear; you will not be role-playing a developer. Unless you are applying for an AI PM role (only in an AI advanced company, which is very rare to find and will most likely not accept applications from an aspiring PM) or a Technical PM role (which I don’t recommend you to apply as your first PM role, unless your background is in software development), you will not be expected to answer these questions in deeply technical ways. You are a product person expected to communicate with marketing, sales, customer support, design, and other non-technical people in the business. Be practical, not cool.

• Pretending you know something technical (when you have no clue)

  • This links to the above point — trying to prove that you are intelligent enough to take on the role. You may feel that this advice conflicts with my second point (only saying “I haven’t done this before,” and freezing). Let me clarify; if something is not your area of expertise, don’t pretend like it is, while still answering the question gracefully with the best of your capabilities.

  • There is nothing wrong with saying, “while I haven’t used that tool before, I have achieved a similar outcome using…” There is nothing wrong with saying, “I haven’t heard of that acronym before, could you please clarify? (Pause) Oh, I see. In that case, I would be following an approach I’ve learned from my leader. I’d be…”

  • There are some things which you can play along — i.e. when you have a good understanding of the wider context. There are other things which you cannot pull off, and trying to play along without acknowledging your lack of expertise will not look good. Ego is a toxin in the product world. Not admitting you are wrong, not admitting you need to conduct further research before coming to a conclusion, or not admitting you need assistance can lead to large failures. You can be confident and humble at the same time.

You can’t possibly prepare for every odd question. So let’s go back to the basics and unpack how you can demonstrate a ‘product mindset.’

On The Product Manager podcast (8 Sept 23 episode), Natalia Baryshnikova was asked, “from a hiring perspective...what are some of the markers you see when you are evaluating someone’s background?”

Natalia answered, “when interviewing product managers, I usually think about the HACK methodology…

‘H’ stands for Humility*...

‘A’ stands for Analytical...

‘C’ stands for Creativity...

‘K’ stands for Knife* (“cut off the pieces that don’t belong” — prioritisation).”

*I would include ‘curiosity’ within ‘humility’ and ‘clear and concise communication’ within ‘knife.’

Side note: I highly recommend listening to the full podcast episode, “How One Street Artist Became Head of Product at Atlassian.” Natalia sounds like a very interesting and passionate product person.

One last tip: bring a pen and paper to your interview. You may want to drop down quick notes or numbers, draw a chart, etc. You may even want to show your notepad to the interviewer to provide further context when answering questions.

With that in mind, let’s workshop some responses to potential interview questions.

• “How would you design a solution for someone trying to communicate with the new human settlement on Mars?”

  • Key qualities: creativity & analytical

  • Think about customer value, needs, behaviour — environmental factors — estimated technical challenges — estimated risks/safety — Mars speed of light 4-13 mins for message to reach

• “What would happen if Google were no longer able to see your location?”

  • Key qualities: analytical & knife

  • Think about the top 3 impacts to businesses (+200 million) — top 3 impacts to customers (+1 billion/month) — estimated impacts to Google’s revenue, users and reputation — estimated impacts to Google (Maps) competitors

• “How many cars are there in Sydney?”

  • Key qualities: analytical

  • Think about population — estimated no of license holders — estimated no of cars per license holder — estimated demand for cars based on age — estimated no of rental cars based on tourism

• “What is your favourite product?” OR “What’s a product you use every day?” (Pause) “Why?” (Pause) “How would you make it 10x more profitable/engaging?”

  • Key qualities: creativity & knife (clear and engaging communication)

  • This question holds the opportunity to reveal your personality, passion, interests, values and observation skills (mindfulness) depending on your response.

  • Did you know that “Apple” is one of the top-performing answers by aspiring and new PMs? I found this out after interviewing for a prior role. The hiring manager took a deep sigh before asking me that question; he was clearly bored to death. I received immediate feedback after my answer; “thank you for not saying Apple — that’s brilliant.” Please, please, please don’t say Apple, Google, Instagram, Youtube, Facebook, ChatGPT, or another HUGE company that everyone else uses. It’s boring(!), ruins the opportunities I mentioned above (as you can’t differentiate yourself from everyone else), limits your creativity, and sets you up for a difficult follow-up question. How can you make a HUGE company 10x better? I also think it shows you lack observation (mindfulness) and appreciation for the technology behind products that aren’t flash multi-billion dollar in revenue. I get it; maybe we move through life really fast and hardly ever pause to see what is around us, observe how the products around us function and add value to our lives. But we can do better than that.

  • Try to pick a product with a few areas for improvement (i.e. common in small/young companies) that you feel excited about and know well enough (i.e. maybe you know a fun fact about it). Someone once asked me, “but what if the hiring manager doesn’t know about this product?” Then passionately sell that product to them first, so they are on board with what you are talking about, then explain how you would make it 10x better. I think most product leaders would appreciate learning something new (it could even inspire their thinking).

  • In my case, I responded with an EdTech company that had a very clever and customer-centric go-to-market strategy (involving product pricing and packaging). I was genuinely impressed by the way their product team thought through the launch and expressed my thoughts with the same passion.

  • Update: again, for this type of question, refer to Lenny’s “definitive guide to mastering product sense questions” article.

  

  **Comment about the image: it’s always a struggle to create images with AI when the prompt is about a specific body part, especially hands/fingers (i.e. making hush sign, or whispering to another person’s ear). This image took me way too long to create, as every other option looked slightly disturbing.

• “How would you explain what LLMs are to a 5/90 years old?”

  • Key qualities: knife (clear and engaging communication) & creativity

  • Think about using metaphors, imagery and humour — tailor your response to the audience (i.e. what can a 90-year-old relate to?). Simplify your answer.

• “What’s a new skill/fact/information you recently learned? Can you teach me?” OR “What’s a recipe you love making? Can you teach me?”

  • Key qualities: knife (clear and engaging communication)

  • Please don’t actually try to explain something you learned recently (i.e. on the morning of the interview). Chances are, your brain is still trying to process the information, so you won’t be able to clearly articulate your response. Instead, talk about something you learned this year, feel passionate about and confident enough to go into detail. You may again like to use humour, imagery and metaphors — again, think of your audience.

• “Our active user numbers are down. Senior stakeholders are concerned. We want you, as the new PM, to fix this. How would you go about it?”

  • Key qualities: humility (curiosity) & knife (detective)

  • Act as a detective to unpack the problem first — ask how the business currently defines active users, why active users matter, when and how the user numbers go down, etc. Once you have clarity on the problem, you can start to make assumptions and explain how you would test these assumptions. Remember, investigating the root cause of problems and going through the discovery stage are part of a PM’s job.

Lastly, “do you have any questions for us?”

Yes, you do! You also need to test your risky assumptions about the company — i.e. do they have a good product culture? There are so many questions you can ask! Some thought starters…

• How do they define success? How is the product’s success measured (what are the key metrics)?

• How do they prioritise ideas and make product decisions (i.e. how autonomous are teams)?

• Are you going to be able to learn from them?

• What is the attitude towards learning and growth (i.e. is the pathway very structured, or do they like to throw you into the deep end and you learn as you go)?

• Why are they hiring you (i.e. is it just to give you Jira board management tasks)?

• What type of PM (i.e. qualities, skills, traits) grows successful in this company?

• How does the product team collaborate with other departments like engineering, marketing, and design (or do they work in silos)?

• What is the biggest challenge the product team faces right now?

• What is the process for gathering and incorporating customer feedback into the product roadmap?

• What does a successful launch look like? How is it evaluated?

• You may also want to ask specific questions about their product, vision, or future plans. Research about the company (very important)!

You may want to ask about funding and product-market fit if you are applying for a start-up. By the way, in most cases, I don’t recommend aspiring PMs to apply for startups under 15 people.

Try to see if the team has an ego problem (or insecurities). For example, does the hiring manager keep referring back to how one needs to be very intelligent to be a PM? Or is there a strong underlying belief that only developers can become PMs? Or are you hearing that the team “cannot afford to make any mistakes this year” because they are “working on really important stuff” (unlike other companies)? 🚩 🚩 🚩

Other examples to watch out for…

• How the founder has very diligently built everything from scratch and is VERY particular about the roadmap and everything has already been determined by him for the next 5 years —> 🚩 Meaning the decisions come from 1 person at the top and may be detached from customer research.

• How the product is so useful that anyone from 18 - 80 is the customer —> 🚩 So, is the team building for EVERYONE in this country? I have different needs from my grandfather, my neighbours, my colleague, so what’s going to happen when your customers want/need different things?

• I once asked, “how does your team prioritise and make decisions about the product,” and received, “like everyone else, I mean, it’s pretty standard, like the other companies.” 🚩 I am very sure that not every company executes in the exact same way.

• In another interview, I once asked, “how would you describe the product culture here,” and received, “umm…good? Like, we talk to each other when needed, we are nice people, if someone needs help, we try to help. I mean, we all have our own things to do, but I guess we can help.” 🚩 Didn’t sound like a reassuring answer coming from the hiring manager.

I have also been in an interview where I didn’t get a chance to ask questions. This was unusual because I generally like to keep interviews conversational and free-flowing (i.e. if I feel curious about something, I will ask for elaboration on the spot). I was told to wait until the end of the interview, then told that we only have time for one very quick question. 🚩

While I made a few judgements and brought the 🚩, at the end of the day, you are the real judge of whether the company is the right fit. Some questions you ask may also not have one right response. For example, you may prefer companies with very structured growth pathways (i.e. every junior PM does this task and to step up into a Sr PM role, every PM has to do this other task). I don’t mind structure, but prefer to work in flexible environments with strong experimental culture and be thrown in the deep end to learn along the way. I find that too much structure limits spontaneous learning opportunities, unique growth and creativity. You probably have some personal preferences that match your personality too.

The reality is that you will most likely end up in a team with a few orange flags because aspiring PMs don’t have many options. The hot scale-ups famous for their product culture generally hire the hot PMs famous for their prior product success. You decide what you can tolerate.

These questions are also there to prepare you for the situation you may be entering into (set realistic expectations in your mind). It’s totally ok to take on a role for 12 months, learn some new skills as a PM, then move on to your next adventure once you have a bit more experience.

Additional Tips & Info

• Let the conversation flow naturally. You are both there to understand if this is the right fit. So many times, people feel nervous because they hyped up a company in their heads; that’s like falling in love with your own imagination. Test them back; maybe the reality is different.

• Landing your first product role may take between 6-12 months, depending on the market conditions. You are in for a marathon, not a sprint. Don’t beat yourself up and feel like a failure if you haven’t found your role in 3 months.

• Practice makes perfect! Practise with your product friend/mentor and collect their feedback. Practise in front of a mirror. Practise with AI. Seriously, NotebookLM is a very cool product (can be very effective for learning new skills and preparing for interviews). Tina Huang made a great tutorial on how to use NotebookLM a while ago, so check it out if you’re curious.

• Don’t forget to ask about the next steps in the hiring process!

All the images I use have been generated using deepai.org (the pop art generator). 🦸‍♀️

If this post is helpful to you, it will probably help others too. Share with a colleague, and if you haven’t done so, subscribe.

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Real people starting their careers or wanting to transition into a product role who face these unrealistic expectations feel real confusion. They may have a cheeky inner thought to respond to such a demand in the job market with, “in my past life, I launched 0-to-1 products, scaled, delivered, iterated and sparkled over a decade.”

Ok, I’ll stop joking around. I’m confident that you can reflect your “product experience” even without a “product manager title” by the end of this article. And the trick isn’t about having a past life.

If you’ve been following my “land your first product role” series, this article will stitch up some of the ideas previously mentioned.

Step 1: Put on your Product Manager hat (or mask) 🎩 🎭

Referencing the “art of blending into the product culture” article, you need a strong understanding of the product language (terminology) AND the product mindset (values and ways of executing).

• Using the right terminology in the appropriate context will help build trust.

• Keeping product values in mind will help select the most suitable experiences when drafting your resume.

• Knowing the product ways of executing will help describe those experiences with relevance.

Three of them combined on a resume is like talking with someone who sounds like they know what they are talking about — credibility.

Note: someone once asked me if there was a “product dictionary” hey could use to draft their resume (i.e. desirability, POC, backlog, agile, prototyping…). I’m sure there is one somewhere on the web. But if you only use the right terminologies without engaging the product mindset, then warning, the result looks a bit funny. Kind of like an inauthentic collage, or puzzle pieces that clearly don’t belong with the rest of the picture.

Step 2: Highlight specific experiences across different roles/companies where you applied the product mindset

Go through your existing resume. Editing what you already have can be an easier start.

• Find where your role has intersected with the role of a product manager.

  • Maybe you assisted with user interviews (as a designer), took a part in the sprint planning sessions (as a BA), brainstormed solutions to user problems (as a customer support rep), conducted market analysis to help with product discovery, or were one of the decision makers in launching the product pricing tiers (as a marketer).

• Find which situations did you had to think like a product manager.

  • Maybe you had to put an experimental mindset and run tests to validate an idea (i.e. as a marketer, A/B testing concepts on social media or emails). Maybe you made customer-centric decisions in your area of expertise. Maybe you were data-driven and adopted a long-term product value focus while planning for the next quarter in your role.

Other questions to get you thinking…

• When learning about the role of a product manager, what resonated with you? Did you ever think, “Oh, product people do this too? This is the best part of my role!”?

• What were the aspects of product management which really aligned with your personality and natural talents/strengths?

Note: refer back to my “how to leverage your superpowers when transitioning into a product role” article for additional inspiration.

Whichever points on your existing resume that you highlighted as relevant to a product role, edit the wording. The chances are, you wrote that resume using your current role’s lexicon and emphasised what your current role valued.

Think about how a product manager would describe this experience. What part of this experience would they want to focus on? Which words would they choose to use? Which KPIs would they mention to showcase your impact? Remember…

• It’s not about making a release but showing that the solution solves a problem or provides value to the customer, business, stakeholders.

• It’s not about running a test but what you learned from it and how you used those findings to iterate on a solution.

• It’s not about attending backlog grooming sessions but understanding how product managers and tech leads ruthlessly prioritise tasks and find a balance between short-term and long-term gains.

As for the remaining points of experience in your resume (the non-product relevant ones)…carefully analyse their purpose. Depending on how many relevant product experiences you were able to identify, remove most of the irrelevant points that belong to your current role. You can keep a few points that reflect your proudest moments, but you want to ensure that majority of your product resume showcases your product self.

Examples from my prior resume drafts:

Note that I have a background in product marketing.

Step 3: Reflect back and note other experiences in which you used the product mindset

‘Exposure’ and ‘experience’ — once again, I’d like to draw your attention to my “how to gain experience in product without having experience in product” article.

“Other experiences” can include personal projects, entrepreneurship (even if the idea did not receive funding), or volunteering your time to assist the product team in your company (or in another company). If you don’t have any exposure to product management, then you are one step ahead of yourself by drafting a resume.

Add those pieces of experiences in your resume, where you think is the most appropriate. Most of the time, you will write additional points under your current and prior roles. But some people have a ‘personal projects’ section of their resume, which is also a very good idea.

Examples:

These are from my prior resume drafts, all volunteer work to other product teams.

• “Coordinated a CMS migration from WordPress to Prismic to uplift website capabilities.”

• “Conducted customer interviews and usability testing to uplift the in-app copy and designs for the ProductName flow. This reduced the weekly support enquiries about the onboarding flow by 25%.”

Step 4: Attach relevant links and additional supporting information

Is there anything else about product management that can go in your resume?

• Did you attend a product management course or workshop?

• Do you have any attachments or links that you can provide? This can be an opportunity to showcase your experience visually via a demo, code, mock-up, customer journey designs, or POC in another format. If you have a structured product portfolio (I didn’t), attach it to your resume — even better.

Step 5: Let your product personality shine through the details on your resume

Resumes are one way of revealing who you are as a product person. The person reading it will give their initial judgement/assessment on whether you could be the right fit for their team.

I’ve seen hiring managers pay attention to…

• The types of companies one has worked for (i.e. startup vs big corp),

• How long one has remained in each company they worked for,

• How the applicant described themselves in their blurb,

• Whether they appeared to be too young (which could be interpreted as, too junior) or too senior (which could be interpreted as too old),

• If they got the ‘dynamic, go getter’ vibes, or the ‘experimental, risk-taker’ vibes, or the ‘detail-oriented, precise’ vibes, etc,

And other things not listed above.

We are human; our intuitions play an important role in our decision-making. It’s the little details that make us stand out and reveal glimpses of who we are (the ‘vibes’).

So, show them who you are.

I won’t get into the details of how your resume should be designed — if it should have a blurb, cover letter, profile picture, or any of the other components. I have strong opinions on this topic which works very well for me, but also contradicts what is generally recommended.

One suggestion: use this as an opportunity to share who you are, rather than send a paper identical to the 327 other papers the hiring manager receives. You don’t need to be Picasso and reinvent the wheel. Just don’t bore the person picking up your resume because they may never even bother reading it.

You may like to use Novorésumé; this is my go-to platform to browse for resume templates and inspiration.

Some questions you may like to ask yourself to be more intentional (there are no right answers)…

• What are your top 3 qualities which should stand out in your resume? What vibes do you want to reflect? How would you like the person reading your resume to describe you?

• How will you achieve that? (i.e. visually, via the design of the resume, written form in the blurb, by bolding some of the words)

Based on that, you can decide…

• If you want to display your personal projects (relevant to the role) on your resume.

  • If so, how visible would you want that component to be (or, how important is this to you)?

• If you want to highlight your technical skills and education in separate components.

  • How visible would you want that component to be (or, how important is this to you)?

• If you want to showcase a short summary/blurb about yourself at the top of your resume.

  • What advantage would that give you?

• If you want to share that you speak other languages?

  • What advantage would that give you?

Additional Notes:

• If you are lacking experience overall (i.e. fresh out of uni or with less than 3 years of work experience overall), your resume may look a bit empty. I’ve been there. The general recommendation is to list your achievements in uni — volunteering time, tutoring, if you were the uni captain (some leadership role), if you got high distinction marks, etc. There is nothing wrong with this approach, but I was never a fan of it. Something that worked for me was having a small section at the bottom of my resume where I either added my interests or two fun facts about me. This section became a conversation topic in a lot of the interviews I attended, sparked curiosity and acted as an ice breaker.

• While there isn’t one right way of writing a resume, please don’t write a biography. Nobody has the time to read a 5-page long resume. It won’t make you more credible. I promise.

• Use your resume draft as a template; be flexible with it. It needs to be adaptable and customisable to the specific role you are applying for.

• Don’t forget about your LinkedIn presence. Having an up-to-date profile really matters.

• Ask for feedback on your resume from a variety of people, ideally from product backgrounds. Take what resonates and leave the rest behind.

After you re-craft your resume with a product spin/touch, will you finally pass the first hurdle and be selected for a recruiter screening call?

Not necessarily. The recruiter’s job is to reduce hiring risk by selecting the most qualified candidate for the provided salary range. It’s not to give you a shot, empathise with your ambitions, or see your inner potential. So, I want to be honest with you; don’t be disappointed if you see rejection emails.

That being said, applying with a product resume without a product manager title is very impressive. It shows how much thought you have put into adapting your resume, your proactive learning ability, creativity, and, honestly, makes you much more hireable. This is the best shot you’ve got. While you don’t catch every fish in the ocean with a short fishing rod, you will eventually catch one and grow your rod. Best of luck! 🐟🐟🐟

All the images I use have been generated using deepai.org (the pop art generator). 🦸‍♀️

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Most of the PMs I’ve asked for advice about becoming a product person mentioned I should nail down, or embody the right attitude — the product ways of thinking and adopt the right product culture.

This can be confusing for aspiring PMs because words like “culture” and “mindset” are quite vague. They are not defined by the whats (as in… specific actions one does), but by the whys and the hows instead.

To unpack this, I will use analogies from theatre 🎭 and philosophy 🪶📜.

“What is the product mindset” (or “what is a product culture”) might be one of the most philosophical questions to ask a PM. In a way, it’s similar to asking another human, “what does it mean to exist,” or “why do we think the way we think about life?” Plenty have never deeply thought through an answer, despite being fairly good at product in itself.

Each PM may respond with a slightly different answer. Below are the most common definitions product people give.

• “Focusing on outcome over output.”

• “Delivering genuine value to users by deeply understanding their needs. Building empathy and connection to users.”

• “Encouraging humility, adaptability and continuous feedback for iterative improvements.”

• “Encouraging cross-functional collaboration and acknowledging the impact of product decisions on different parts of the business (and vice versa).”

• “Experimenting with innovative ideas and learning from data.”

• “Adopting a long-term value focus, rather than implementing reactive tactics.”

• “Communicating a clear and strong product vision.”

To put it simply, someone once told me that product culture is about “how the product gets built” — what information is considered in the decision making, who gets involved in the process, what are the must-have tasks to complete before delivery, etc. This is my favourite definition.

Note: I have used the words “product mindset” and “culture” interchangeably. To clarify, a team’s product mindset will shape their product culture (hence the emphasis on hiring decisions).

Despite the fact that there isn’t one right and clearly defined answer to what a good product culture is, almost all PMs instinctively know what isn’t a good product culture. So it’s something important to address, and understanding it will help de-risk yourself in the job market.

Let’s strip back to the basics. One may like to simply put it as, “to be.”

Well, then perhaps the question is, “how to be a Product Manager?” Knowing the answer will get you through the door.

I’m not trying to advocate for “fake it ‘till you make it,” but using basic theatre technique (i.e. deconstructing the character and script) may help you to learn and pass your product interviews.

Know your character. 🎭

The goal is not to pretend like someone else, but instead to find connection and understanding. This will allow you to empathise with the experiences of a Product Manager, use the right terminologies, and think through problems like a PM.

Some questions you may like to find the answers to…

• What are the common goals PMs aim towards (i.e. user engagement and retention)?

• What are the common challenges PMs face (i.e. balancing priorities of internal stakeholders with user experience optimisation)?

  • How do PMs solve or get around these challenges? Answers will vary, but having a broad understanding is better than not having a clue.

• What are the things that annoy most PMs? Or, what are the things PMs complain about the most?

• What are the skills PMs use the most?

How to know your character

Talk! The simplest and most effective way of understanding Product Managers is to talk with them. I underlined the importance of scheduling coffee catchups or calls with product people in my second post of this series. Hearing first-hand experiences from PMs with a variety of backgrounds (business size, industry, target audience, etc) will ground you in the reality of Product Management.

“At the end of this research phase, you should be able to describe product management as a person with their distinct personality traits and lifestyle. I know that the role of a product manager differs according to the company. However, you should still be able to recognise the trends and patterns. You can also create 2-3 different PM personalities/archetypes to capture this variance.”

Know your script. 📜

You don’t need to nail down each dot point (as that will naturally happen with experience), but try to have a broad understanding of the following.

• What are the words commonly used by PMs to describe their workflow?

• What is a day-to-day of a PM? What are common tasks/actions PMs complete in a week?

• Who are the allies of a PM? Who (or which teams) work closely with a Product Manager?

• What are product processes like? Why are these processes important? Some examples:

  • What’s involved in ‘discovery’ work?

  • How to create roadmaps?

  • How to conduct user interviews?

  • How do sprint planning meetings work?

How to know your script

Most of this is theory work. I highly recommend varying your resources. Read books, online articles, the job descriptions posted on LinkedIn, listen to podcasts, watch YouTube videos, ask an AI bot, etc.

If you can get some exposure to product teams (or experience assisting/shadowing), that would be a bonus! ✨

Once I had a broad understanding of how “to be” a Product Manager, I blended in like an artist in a masked ball. I became confident enough to speak like a PM (using the product terminology) before my first product role.

But that was not enough.

Because there is an element of “force” that is involved in acting. The ways of thinking are not instinctual, yet. There is too much brain power involved in even simple tasks, like leading a sprint planning session.

Going back to philosophy, to add a single layer of complexity, we can also say, “I think, therefore I am.” 🧠 (— René Descartes)

Well, how do Product Managers think? Knowing the answer will have you thrive. In theatre, this is equivalent to forming a deep connection or empathy with your character. It comes with time and practice. First, one must “be,” then one can “think” and rationalise how to be.

This stage of growth requires you to shift from the “what” to the “why.” While linking actions with consequences in a variety of situations, there will be a lot of “aha!” moments. There will probably be a few (or more) “ouch!” moments, as everyone makes mistakes along the way.

Some examples…

• From: “Why do we have to test this? Isn’t it obvious? Everyone in our team would totally use this feature.”

  • To: “5 people are not an accurate representation of our wider audience. We should probably test a prototype of this feature before continuing with the build.”

• From: “I feel like everyone’s attacking me. They’re constantly asking me questions and justifications. I need to prove my case to them.”

  • To: “Am I thinking and communicating clearly? Do I have reliable data to back this string of thought? Am I bringing on a biased view? Let me listen through my team’s concerns and see how we can address or test them.”

• From: “If the potential customer says they’d use this feature in the interview, then we can take their word for it. Why would they lie to us anyway?”

  • To: “I sounded very keen in the last user interview. They may have been shy to reveal their honest feedback. I will change the last few questions to see if customers who say they’ll use this feature are willing to commit on the spot. At the end of the day, we need people to pay for this feature.”

How to start thinking like a PM

You can read LinkedIn posts written by PMs, but this way of learning is limited when compared to gaining exposure and experience. Refer back to my explanation of the “3 types of valuable experiences” for more information. Shadowing and/or assisting a product team in your company before making a career transition is incredibly valuable.

Tip: ask A LOT of questions. Do NOT assume anything. Examples…

• Why do we need to consider this?

• Why did you make this decision instead of that?

• How come you are not committing to a date, but instead giving a date range for delivery?

• How are you planning to challenge this stakeholder on their idea?

Note: I intentionally used the words “how to start thinking like a PM” because our thoughts develop as we grow. Our experiences shape our thought patterns. No one thinks perfectly.

Once you have a strong understanding of the why, you can also start to get cheeky. 😏

You will have confidence and a stronger understanding of when, where and how much to push the boundaries, take risks and cut the corners (or drill down / dig further in), and who to consult (users, internal stakeholders, etc) — instead of following the same theory book or checklist for each project.

You can call it the “product intuition.” It’s not always accurate, but if you can learn from mistakes, then it can only become more accurate/reliable over time. In acting, the equivalent would be improv, when you have to continue the performance without a script.

Note: while this process requires experience, it doesn’t take too long, as long as you have self-reflection skills. As I’ve learnt more and become more attuned to working in product teams, my “mask” moulded to the shape of my face. The awkwardness disappeared, and a new way of thinking became more natural.

Once you start to instinctively think like a product manager… 🪄🎩 you think (like a PM), therefore you are.

Hence, the “product mindset” is not unique to Product Managers. You can apply a product mindset to solve a problem in an organisation without having a Product Manager title. That’s also why you can create a resume with no product experience, but with a “product focus” — Aha!

Hint: I’ll elaborate on how to create a product-focused resume without a Product Manager experience in an upcoming post.

Final Thoughts…

There are a handful of great books about the product culture and the product mindset. The most popular one is probably Marty Cagan’s book, ‘Inspired.’ My approach to these books is similar to my approach to self-help books.

1. Read, think through, complete additional research and come to an understanding of the key ideas/themes.

2. Summarise into ideals.

   The reason why I use the word “ideals” is that how books describe the product culture can be quite idealistic. You might wonder if certain practices only exist in utopia, especially after chatting with other PMs. Theory doesn’t always match the practice. That doesn’t devalue the theory.

   I think of the product mindset as a North Star to aim towards (for myself).* Likewise, the product culture is a North Star I seek in the companies I interview for. We don’t have to get it right 100%, but knowing what the ideals are can guide us to focus and be more intentional with our approach.

   Fun Fact: while the stats (%s) vary, most organisations don’t think they have the product culture “nailed down” (perfected) yet and are looking for ways to improve. So, this is a North Star for almost all product people.

3. Take what resonates. Leave the rest behind.

   The best practices are the ones that resonate with you. They are the sustainable, realistic and achievable methods for you. They should be thought patterns you can naturally adopt. When you rationalise concepts or use a different set of words to describe the same outcome, you are personalising an idea, so it fits your character better. This is great.

   Sometimes, certain ways of thinking don’t suit you. Maybe it clashes with your personality — in that case, you might see if there are others you can learn from. Maybe the concept is too early for you to internalise and learn. Have you ever read a book for the second time and realised that you completely missed the point of a chapter X years ago? Or maybe you formed a new interpretation of the chapter, because you’ve grown and gained new perspectives in life. It’s ok to leave what doesn’t resonate with you behind, because if that thing will provide real value to your life, then when you are ready, you will come to the realisation in your own time.

*My definition for a good product culture: “a company (not just one team) that consistently aims to apply a collection of practices, patterns of thinking and processes that have a track record of building and shipping high-quality products which are easy to use and provide strong value to the customers.”

Then, I can expand on what the “collection of practices, patterns of thinking and processes” are (i.e. “focusing on outcome over output”).

All the images I use have been generated using deepai.org (the pop art generator). 🦸‍♀️

If this post is helpful to you, it will probably help others too. Share with a colleague, and if you haven’t done so, subscribe.

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Approaching my 25th birthday (which still doesn’t feel real), I decided to put my experiments through a comprehensive test, which would reveal the ‘health status’ of my organs compared to those of others of my gender and age. Of course, I had to pick TruDiagnostic.

I have been really excited to write this review, even though the topic of health and longevity is very sensitive and triggering to some people. Let’s get started and keep our curious scientist hat on (and the judgemental hat off).

You may want to skip to certain sections that are relevant to you (because I tend to write essays). To give you a shortcut, in this article, you will find…

• Backstory (and company info)

• What I love about TruDiagnostic

• What would I love to see improve/change

• Common criticisms of TruDiagnostic

  • Including tips on getting the most accurate outcome of your TruDiagnostic test results

• My results & goals

• Additional links

Backstory

To bring everyone on the same page, TruDiagnostic is a US-based company that specialises in epigenetics and biological age testing. They have 2 main products.

1. TruAge Test

   Provides biological age score (OMICmAge) on a cellular level, organ systems age scores, telomere length info, pace of ageing (DunedinPACE), smoking & alcohol impact scores, grip & gait strength, immunity & inflammation info.

2. TruHealth Test

   Provides a comprehensive view into your body’s essential systems and nutrients via comparing your +105 biomarkers, +75 antioxidants, vitamins and fatty acids with others your age and gender.

You can also get a package option for a cheaper price. Both require blood samples, which you will need to collect by pricking your finger. See below for more details.

They also have many interesting peer-reviewed research publications and clinical trials if you are interested in reading more about longevity.

I knew about TruDiagnostic from my partner; he knew about the company from Bryan Johnson. This was back in early 2023. He got tested, came out 3 years older than his chronological age, and dug into solution mode. We were both fascinated by the report and insights, even though TruDiagnostic was a new company back then. In retrospect, their reports are way more useful and detailed now.

There were 2 reasons why I did not get tested back then. Firstly, I didn’t have the money to spend. Secondly, I didn’t think I would get much value out of the test when I was only 22. However, my excitement and impatience took over, so I made a note to get tested right before my 25th birthday.

How to purchase testing kits from Australia?

I purchased both tests from Chris Barnes. He is an epigenetic performance coach and the Australian partner for TruDiagnostic. The company no longer ships testing kits directly to Australian consumers. You will need to go to Chris Barnes Wellness website and send an email requesting a quote. The process is very easy. The plus side of ordering the kit via Chris is that he can help you to interpret your results and set achievable goals. He’s literally the expert in the field; I felt grateful to grab 30 minutes and bombard him with questions. He also sells a genetic testing kit, if you are interested in that.

Did I “train” (or prepped) for it?

Not really. Firstly, while I wouldn’t call myself very healthy (doing just the standard stuff, like regular exercise, eating lots of fruits, veggies and salmon, etc), I also never had major unhealthy habits (i.e. don’t smoke, don’t drink alcohol, don’t do weekly/fortnightly takeouts, don’t use sauces and excessive sugars, don’t stay up late at night, etc). So I didn’t feel the need to put in a major effort to prep for a test. I also genuinely wanted to see how my current sustainable habits impacted me. My relatively healthy lifestyle was easy, affordable and fun for me. There are two caveats to that, though.

1. Unfortunately, in early 2024, C-PTSD really damaged my health. I won’t get into the details, but needed plenty of help to function well and desire life.

2. In 2025 (and kind of late 2024), longevity became my nerdy hobby. I swung to the opposite direction with the belief that holding a high quality of life is a must-have for being alive (as in… what is the point of living if it mostly consists of suffering?). This is what I wanted to strive towards; healthy habits meant self-care, self-love and self-respect. Hence, my longevity experiments began.

Did I have any expectations from the test?

I expected to learn about my body, the impact of my historical and more recent behaviours/routines/lifestyle choices. I expected to take away some action points and have health goals to work towards.

Besides that, I had no idea what to expect. C-PTSD is a chronic illness impacting multiple organs and systems of the body (unlike the common belief that it’s just “emotional stuff”). Evidence is growing to show the link between trauma and poor brain health, disrupted nervous system, disrupted hormonal health (including lack of, or irregular periods for women, something that I relate to), higher chances of cardiovascular disease, gut health issues, and respiratory problems (if the child has been exposed to smoke).

Trauma can also cause changes in DNA methylation (which alters how genes are expressed) and can even be passed down to future generations. In short, I would not have been surprised at all if I appeared older across most of my organs.

I have also spent the past 12 months having health and longevity conversations with people from various age groups and backgrounds (mostly non-health professionals). This was a part of my HealthTech research as a PM. Something that I learned throughout these conversations is that 90% of people (strongly) think that they are very healthy, just 1-2 steps away from Bryan Johnson, because (quoted) “what’s the point of life if I’m going to be an obsessive freak like him?” Bryan would laugh his ass off hearing that confident claim.

Hearing about the lifestyle and daily habits of most people, I could point to +3 reasons why they were not very healthy within 5-10 minutes. Most common reasons are regular alcohol consumption, poor sleep habits, lack of movement, over-consumption of takeout (and ultra-processed foods), and poor consumption of fibre and omega-3s. However, 90% of people are sure that they are only struggling with their health (i.e. chronic back pain, being overweight, digestion issues) because of their genetics (as in… there is nothing they can do about it).

It’s a very humbling experience to have these conversations — shocks me so much that over the past 6 months, my confidence in my health has dropped. I thought, we must all be deluding ourselves. I have instead started sharing, “I don’t think I am very healthy, but I am definitely doing my best to set healthy habits in my life and improve in sustainable ways.”

One advice I have for people wanting to take the TruDiagnostic test is to approach it with curiosity. Overconfidence, plus a lack of self-awareness, knowledge and responsibility is a recipe for disappointment. And for long-rage threads on Reddit, cursing the company (which some are hilariously childish). Also, keep in mind that the damage from a decade of an unhealthy lifestyle cannot be magically undone by 6 months of trying to be healthy to prep for the test. This isn’t a uni exam you can cram in the last few nights. Just setting the right expectations.

What I love about TruDiagnostic

Accuracy & reliability

This is the most important aspect for an epigenetic test, and TruDiagnostic is arguably the best international provider.

Research behind the 2nd and 3rd gen tests has been developed in partnership with Harvard, Yale and Duke. The company is leveraging the largest private DNA methylation database in the world and has been through rigorous tests for its reliability and accuracy in comparison to the standard blood test results.

Below shows the reliability of different biological ageing clocks. Testing reliability is simple; participants had to get tested using the same test multiple times, and if the results can be consistently replicated, the test is fairly reliable.

Note: some people left reviews online to point out that the reliability is off when the test is repeated in 1-2 months. In 1-2 months, someone can catch a virus (without even showing symptoms), be sleep deprived, have their period (for women with regular monthly cycles), go through additional stress, etc. Blood tests can vary within 1-2 months, or even 2 weeks, as well.

TruDiagnostic’s tests have accuracy because their algorithm is optimised to predict chronic disease and remaining years of life. We still don’t have a standardised ‘golden’ method for measuring biological age (i.e. is telomere length X% important, or X+5% important in predicting overall ageing).* The algorithm of ‘speed of ageing’ is designed based on correlations and the clinical trials scientists have done to date. Therefore, these tests have certain limitations and generally become more accurate as years pass and more research is conducted. However, measuring biological age based on mortality and disease prediction (which come from tracking DNA methylation**, epigenetic biomarkers, collected via blood test) logically makes the most sense.

*Note: TruDiagnostic tests show the telomere age separately, if you are curious.

**Note: DNA methylation is a complex thing to explain, but I’ll do my best. Methyl tags get influenced by environmental factors (i.e. stress, diet); they then influence how our genes are turned on and off (i.e. the gene for dementia or cardiovascular disease). We have thousands and thousands of genes, some are expressed and some are hidden; this is the study of epigenetics. The accumulation of certain methylation patterns is linked to the process of chronological ageing (or having an unhealthy lifestyle, which contributes to biological ageing) — this is now a predictable process for scientists due to the amount of data we have.

In such an important space that needs science backing, TruDiagnostic does not give you the ‘feel good happy talk’ vibes, handing out everyone a gold star for ‘being young.’ Unfortunately, the players in the ‘epigenetic test’ space have increased over the past few years, and some have damaged the credibility of the ‘biological age clocks.’ To be blunt about it, some products are a scam (or completely unscientific), unable to filter out noise in large data samples, showing everyone slightly younger (and fit people dramatically younger). This is where you hear stories like, “I’m 55 and my biological age is 19.” I don’t want to assume it’s intentional, as I’d like to believe that all PMs and scientists are trying to do their best. At the same time, consumers choose to engage with products that make them feel good — basic psychology. I have observed that even the healthiest people can find action areas to focus on from the TruDiagnostic test reports, as you are given results of over 105 biomarkers.

I’m not saying that they are perfect. But neither are standard blood tests; you can expect error rates between 1−6% for many common lab tests. If it helps, you can view the reports as a sign of ageing (or a sign of health) to take away health goals, rather than ‘your set in stone biological age’ (and honestly, it doesn’t matter whether you are 28.2 or 28.8 years old). Arguably, trends of ageing matter more.

For more information on the accuracy and reliability of biological age tests, refer to this page.

⁠Fast turnaround time

From the day I shipped my parcel (express shipping in Australia), it took 2-3 weeks for the results to arrive. They are speedy — won’t make you melt in anticipation.

For people who want to experiment in this space, fast results = quick pivots & iterations on your end = agile testing cycles. 😉

Also, the process was quite easy end-to-end. Completing the questionnaire was quick (even though I overthought each answer), the instructions were clear, and collecting the blood sample was easy (left a mini bruise on my finger afterwards).

You are compared to others of your age and gender

It’s sad to state this as a “pro,” but unfortunately, the blood tests we complete after a GP’s referral don’t compare us to other healthy individuals our age and gender (except for hormone-related or other gender-related tests).

Traditional health runs on a system of “one size fits all.” For example, the recommended fibre amount for everyone is 25g a day, whether you are old, young, 100kg man, 45kg teenage girl, the result is the same. Likewise, the “healthy range” we see on our pathology reports are given to everyone AND they are calculated based on the average of others who get tested in the same lab. That means, this data is influenced by people with chronic illness and people in their 70s (reminder, the average age of mortality for women in Australia is 82.5 years old). Hence, throughout the decades, the “healthy range” displayed in these reports has shifted (often towards a poorer outcome). For example, doctors currently expect lower testosterone levels for men and lower iron levels for women, and accept them as “normal” (or the average), in comparison to the levels expected in the 1990s. I’m not saying these ranges are wrong. I’m saying that they are averages, and average doesn’t mean optimal health outcome for you.

This is a very important point that I think the majority of the population doesn’t know.

This is why some people are shocked to see some of their blood results appearing to be poor in TruDiagnostic’s tests (when compared to others their age and gender), while in a standard lab test, they appear average (in the middle of the “healthy range” for everyone).

Speed of ageing

You will get to see not just how your historical lifestyle has impacted your organs, but also how your current lifestyle is impacting your speed of ageing.

DunedinPACE test is a reflection of how your recent health interventions are impacting your pace of ageing. This is a great way to test if you are heading towards the right direction with your daily habits. It applies an optimistic lens by revealing that you can take control of your health at almost any age.

Active involvement in the scientific research community & transparency

As someone nerdy about longevity (and without a medical background), one of my challenges is accessing information. So, I have a high appreciation of companies that are transparent with their clinical trials and other scientific research. You can read about the work TruDiagnostic is involved in via their website.

Knowledge + Consumer Effort = Empowerment. 🧠💪

Side note: I also ⁠love their involvement in the longevity research community overall.

Another note: I appreciate the ethical business practice they adopt when talking about other players in the longevity space. Their CEO, Matt Dawson, approaches all discussions with data, kindness and professionalism. I cannot stand companies in HealthTech with a marketing strategy of bashing each other up (without data backing, but with lots of unnecessary visuals of ‘hot gym girls’) to prove that their way of doing health is superior. Also, health is not directly correlated to a person’s sexiness; please don’t pick your HealthTech company based on it visuals.

Privacy and data collection

Another ethical business practice of TruDiagnostic is the respectful way they handle customer data. It is HIPAA compliant and doesn’t use third parties for testing or sharing customer data. You can also opt out of participating in TruDiagnostic’s research programs.

What I would love to see improve/change

Product does not have a slick user experience

If you are purchasing a test from TruDiagnostic, it’s because of their product’s quality (the science behind their testing), not because you love their user experience. Let me explain with some examples.

• I would have loved to receive an email; “your results have arrived”. Except, I found out about my results after thinking, “hasn’t it been 3 weeks? Why haven’t they let me know that my results are ready? Let me check this.” Throughout their experience, small helpful things like that are missing.

• Customers often have a lot of questions after seeing their results. If you are not as nerdy as I am and you don’t have a medical background, then you will most likely be wondering, “what does this marker mean, why is it important, so what should I do about it?” I also had a bunch of questions to dig up. This process is fun for me, but not sure if other customers have that much time.

Overall, they don’t provide a very engaging product experience. You can participate in the Rejuvenation Olympics after 3 tests (link is at the bottom of the article), but the product experience ends once you receive your reports. However, I really appreciate that the majority of TruDiagnostic’s resources are going towards uplifting their product quality (scientific research and perfecting their testing algorithms).

I think their target customers are nerdy into the longevity space, because their content is technical and scientific for an average person. Or maybe this is their way of remaining credible, which works for me. By the same token, I believe their product is inaccessible for the segment of customers who care about longevity (and will take actions to improve their health), but don’t have the time and/or deeper interest to do extensive research.

Side note: I imagine a future where the roles of some doctors shift into ‘longevity coaches’ and they work with patients examining reports like the one TruDiagnostic provides. Or maybe we’ll all visit longevity clinics for regular check-ups with these tests (as this becomes more affordable), and the idea of visiting the doctor becomes a big deal (i.e. for emergency purposes, black swan injuries). So, I wouldn’t be surprised if TruDiagnostic is planning a B2B strategy, rather than focusing on B2C initiatives.

Lack of personalised recommendations

Adding to the point above, while there are some ‘action points’ recommended for users to follow based on their epigenetic result in TruHealth Report, it wasn’t enough to put together a plan or a personalised longevity protocol. I expected more. Also, their recommendations in the TruAge Report are generic and given to all, rather than being based on your results.

I understand that the company is trying to upsell with personalised coaching (for an additional cost), but this option is unclear on their website. I would not have known that I could get coaching if I didn’t reach out to the company’s support team over email. Maybe this is a new path they are exploring and experimenting with. Despite doing a lot of research, I still found a 30-minute consultation with Chris Barnes to be helpful, so if you are based in Australia, reach out to him.

Side note: red wine is still under their generic recommendations (shocking!). I’ll happily argue with anyone on this topic. There are far healthier ways to get resveratrol than drinking neurotoxins. By the same token, baklava could be a longevity superfood too, because it contains pistachios (lutein and zeaxanthin), walnuts (omega-3s), and the sugar will give you a massive energy boost. 🥜 My Turkish genes are screaming, “go baklava!” 😋

Expensive

I don’t need to beat around the bush. Advanced longevity treatments are very expensive. Getting tested is also expensive. I can’t afford this test more than once a year. I wish I could!

That being said, getting your basics right in health (the main pillars) isn’t expensive. Sleep is free. You can get your cardio done outside on the streets. Meditation and box breathing don’t cost anything.

Being healthy doesn’t depend on purchasing an epigenetic test. However, the more you understand your body, the more precise you can get with your lifestyle choices. This is how I justify the cost. Health is one of my biggest priorities in life; I guess I’m boring.

Reports don’t actually show blood test results

The TruDiagnostic reports show percentages and how you compare against people your age and gender. This is a useful view and it was certainly interesting.

However, I expected to see the actual results (in numbers) of my blood tests. I was a bit disappointed and had to take additional tests to double-check my results (it cost me additional time and money).

Despite being a big fan of TruDiagnostic, I might explore other options that reveal my blood test results clearly (or alternate 2 companies/tests) — need to research this.

Fitness Report

I am really confused (and curious) about how the fitness report is calculated. It seems quite off for most people. This section is not very important (and takes up a small space in the wider report), as you can test the following in other ways (that are probably more reliable): ‘fit age,’ ‘grip strength,’ ‘gait speed’ and ‘VO2Max.’

My partner’s results appeared to be too low 2.5 years ago, when he was regularly going to the gym and running. My VO2Max is showing to be 46, but on Whoop, it’s showing to be 50. Not a huge difference (still very good), but it’s not the first time I’ve heard that TruDiagnostic underestimates the fitness markers for fit people.

Common criticisms of TruDiagnostic

Not a genetic test kit

Some people comment that the TruDiagnostic test reports are not useful because they do not provide a genetic test. I think both provide different views on your health, and what you purchase will depend on your interests/priorities.

Right now, I would rather know about how my organs are ageing, so I can take action steps to slow down ageing. However, I would be keen to purchase a genetic test kit in the future, as it would also provide interesting insights that I can use to further optimise my health.

Not FDA approved / “My GP doesn’t know about the test, therefore it’s not credible”

I understand the credibility FDA approvals give. I also understand that it takes years and a ton of money to get a product FDA-approved; it’s a huge hassle. If I were a Product Manager at TruDiagnostic (what a dream!), given how niche my audience is and the fact that my product is not a diagnostic test (meaning, it doesn’t require an FDA approval), not sure if I would spend my main resources trying to push for an FDA approval. In fact, I’m sure I would spend the time and money on continuing to develop my product’s quality in other ways.

As to the comment about GPs… just a reminder, your GP is not your longevity coach or a personal trainer — their job is not to improve your health, but rather to assess if you have a critical condition to be referred to a specialist. They are the middleman between hospitals/specialists and patients. They don’t need to understand how epigenetic tests work, the latest research on longevity science, how vitamin deficiencies impact each organ’s function, the connection between gut health and mood disorders/PMS/cognitive health, or how specific protocols can impact DNA methylation. GPs assess you against the norms (i.e. dying at age 80 and spending the last decade of your life taking 6 prescription pills with one or more chronic diseases — this is the norm of Australia, as to the stats in 2025). I’m not bashing GPs, but instead reminding you that there is a reason longevity clinics with quarterly consultations charge between $5000-$20,000 per year for membership.

Collecting dried blood

Hot take, very controversial topic to discuss. For someone without a medical background, fresh blood sounds more reliable than dried blood. By the same token, working with recent blood (24 hours old) is probably better than working with blood that’s 7 days old. I would love to hear an explanation from the TruDiagnostic team about this. My thoughts/research…

• Research conducted at Uppsala University (Sweden, 2017) revealed that the drying process had a “negligible effect on the protein level in the blood samples.” Some government-funded diagnostic tests also rely on collecting dried blood; the NSW Health website states that DBS tests are “close to 100% accuracy.” There is a lot of research you can find online about the accuracy of dried blood collection. Hence, some labs around the world are considering switching to dried blood collection, as the process is easier, more scalable and efficient.

• Collecting dried blood is still shown to be more accurate than collecting saliva, which is the method that a lot of other biological age testing companies rely on.

“Inaccuracy” of the blood test results

This generally goes along the lines of, “I tested my liver values a month ago, and my bilirubin was 12. On this test, it looks much higher. This test is so inaccurate!” I briefly touched on this under another point, but to summarise…

1. “Healthy ranges” for blood tests compare you to the average population (including people in their 70s). TruDiagnostic compares you to others of your age and gender. Maybe you thought your markers were good when compared to an unhealthy average.

2. Some blood test results vary month by month. I completed an experiment in 2023, getting blood samples to see my liver results 4x during the year, about a month apart. For some markers, I received different results each month. The fact that I was stressed and had the flu totally impacted the results.

3. TruDiagnostic is not basing your “organ age” on 1 value only. It’s trying to paint a big picture by considering a range of markers. Not all markers matter equally when judging someone’s health, and some markers can fluctuate month to month.

To get the most accurate outcome of your test results…

This is the advice from my AI longevity coach to avoid elevated inflammation markers. I would love to hear TruDiagnostic’s recommendations as well.

• Don’t test within 4 weeks of getting sick or injured.

• Don’t test within 6 weeks of having surgery (depending on the type/invasiveness of the operation).

• Don’t test after a strenuous workout; ideally, take 24-48 hours off from the gym/running before you test.

• Don’t test when you have seasonal allergies flaring up.

• Don’t test 5 days before and during the first 3-4 days of your period, depending on how long and how much you bleed (for women).

• Replicate the same testing conditions each time you test.

Questions about oddities in data

Not sure why people provide ridiculous examples; it might be due to the other biological ageing clocks that operate on ‘happy vibes’ and low-science. 2 common questions that get asked online;

1. “What if your biological age is 20 when you are 45? Do you have 60 more years to live?”

It’s almost impossible to appear at age 20 when you are 45 with TruDiagnostic. Throwing out exaggerated examples like this is unhelpful, as such cases exist in such rare amounts that they skew the overall data.

If a person were to exist like this, then there is absolutely nothing wild about living to 105 years old. There are people who have lived to 105 before. “In the US, 2021 records show that in a population of 336,996,624 people, there were 89,739 centenarians (a prevalence of 0.27%)…with 15% having no disease at 100.” In fact, “by 2050, nearly 3.7 million people are expected to live up to 100.”

I’m curious to see how data from TruDiagnostic will shape over the next 50 years, as more and more people will pass 100 years old.

2. “My biological age is 10 years older than my chronological age, but my parents died at 80. So, my genes are great, clearly. Are you saying that I’m going to die at 70?”

Not necessarily, when considering future medical advancements. Medicine is progressing; there are always means to keep someone alive. But it might show a very good indication of how much and how early you begin to suffer from a chronic illness.

Denial of data

Sadly, it seems like a lot of people are simply upset with having a biological age older than their chronological age. A lot of the criticisms I’ve heard and seen are from people with no scientific background, who correlate certain activities and appearances with “excellent” health. These go something along the lines of…

• “I can run 10km, clearly I’m not older than what I am, this is stupid!”

• “Everyone says that I look younger than my age and I am skinny, so I don’t have any health problems, not sure why this test would show that I’m 5 years older.”

• “How come my brain health is 7 years older? I got 95 in my ATAR, I’m smart, and I’m sure that I can perform well.”

My only comment is that it’s immature to blame the algorithm because you didn’t perform well (and this is not a performance; it’s a helpful tool for you to understand your body). This is equivalent to a teenager blaming their teacher for being mean to them because they didn’t get an A+ on their assessment task.

TruDiagnostic is a mirror pointing at your organs and historical behaviour. The company isn’t trying to shame anyone, but it seems like data can shatter one’s ego. We are all trying our best to be healthy, but sometimes we face barriers (and it’s not our fault), like not having access to scientific information, a lack of support from our environment, or being stuck in damaging situations.

Reading through Reddit threads and chatting with people as a PM has been an illuminating experience; we really don’t have much knowledge about our health. Social media confused us even more with unrealistic beauty standards. Traditional medicine wants to claim that blueberries and spinach are everyone’s “superfood,” when they disrupt some people’s gut microbiome and cause diarrhoea. For women, accessing information is even more challenging and being gaslighted is very frustrating (i.e. “not having your period for 6 months is ok”).

This post is getting really long, but people most commonly underestimate the impact of sleep, stress, gut health, hormones (i.e. having regular periods), hydration, and walking (not just weightlifting).

My results & goals

I’ll keep this section short; I don’t think anyone really cares about someone’s results. But it might be helpful if you are experiencing similar challenges. That being said, I am not a doctor (just someone who regularly researches, experiments and refines her routine to become healthier), nor an expert on your body, so don’t blindly follow what I do.

In hindsight, the results were kind of predictable. I have 3 main things to work on.

1. Hormonal health (my number 1 priority; almost 3 years older than my chronological age)

Not surprising at all, given how much disregulated nervous system (complex trauma) impacts the hormonal health of women. I have also been on a very high caloric restriction for many years (probably since I was 16, maybe even longer), which further damaged my hormones. There is a lot of research that proves slight caloric restriction as a longevity hack. I won’t go into the scientific details (it’s something that I believe in) — but, emphasis on the word, slight (not starvation). Lastly, I also used birth control pills for 18 months (between 2024-25), which didn’t help.

The biggest sign of poor hormonal health for me was the irregular periods. One of the biggest lies young women hear from their doctors is that it’s completely ok to not ovulate and not have their period. For some reason, we have come to believe that while men need their testosterone (although our standards for that dropped a lot, too), women don’t need their vital hormones to function properly. Very interesting. Very delusional belief.

Fun fact: having regular periods doesn’t mean you are ovulating each month.

Another fun fact: having poor hormonal health can lead to early menopause. Delaying menopause plays a huge role in the longevity journey of women. It’s one of the biggest differences in longevity protocols for men and women.

I’d highly recommend looking into some of Kayla Barnes’ podcasts for more information. Some links below…

• https://www.kaylabarnes.com/podcasts/endometriosis-with-dr-sasha-hakman

• https://www.timeline.com/blog/kayla-barnes-on-mitochondria-and-ovarian-longevity

• https://www.kaylabarnes.com/podcasts/exercise-and-fertility-with-dr-sasha-hakman

Here’s what I’m doing about it.

• Continue the experiments (and validated strategies) to heal my nervous system

• Come to a maintenance in daily calories (still working on it, but getting close)

• I stopped taking birth control pills to track my natural menstrual cycle

• Vitamin B5 supplementation (very strange, but I seem to have a deficiency in comparison to other women my age), as it’s linked to regulating hormones and menstrual cycles

• Red light therapy 3x a week for 15 minutes (there is a lot of anecdotal evidence and emerging research on how RLT supports hormonal health, modulates hormone levels for regulating periods and managing PMS symptoms, including cramping, so it’s worth a try)

2. Lung health (not too bad, just a few months older than my chronological age)

This was not surprising given how much 2nd hand smoking I’ve been exposed to growing up. I had asthma, and my dad wasn’t certain about the diagnosis until he tested the condition a few times. Istanbul was also a highly polluted city back in early 2000, before I moved to Sydney. Otherwise, I have never smoked in my life. Most of my smoke exposure was before I was 10. It’s very clear (and also sad) how impacts can last more than a decade after such exposure.

Here’s what I’m doing about it:

• HBOT 50min 2x a week + 90min 1x a week (high pressure)

• Taking marshmallow root and tinospora cordifolia extract as supplements

• Researching about mullein leaf extract for additional support

• Purchased an Oyxfit breath trainer. It’s on my list of health experiments for next year

To my knowledge, we never had a mould problem, but it’s always good to check. We already have an air purifier. Planning to purchase an air quality monitor as well (on my list of things to do for next year).

Other things to note (stuff I’m already doing); regular exercise (especially cardio) and lowering salt can reduce airway inflammation, and of course, the famous trio (antioxidants, vitamin C and fish oils) helps protect the lungs from damage.

3. Liver health (not too bad, just a few months older than my chronological age)

This is something more people should care about, as liver disease has increased 400% in the last 50 years (and the rates of diagnosis are still accelerating). What’s interesting is that the leading cause of liver disease is no longer alcohol.

My drinking history: I had a 10-glass-a-year limit on alcohol between 2018-2021 (about once every 2 months, 1-2 servings each time). This dropped to 8 servings between 2022-23, then to 5 servings in 2024, and 4 servings this year (had 2 so far and 98% sure that I won’t hit my limit).

I listened to a talk by Siggi Clavien last weekend and learned about the impact that stress/trauma, corn syrup, high fructose foods, preservatives, soft drinks and microplastics have on the liver. From this list, the item I really need to remove/manage is the unhealthy stress. I mentioned this before, but during 2023, when I ran a test to see my liver results 4 times, the months when I had elevated values were related to high stress. Here’s what I’m doing about it.

• Continue the experiments (and validated strategies) to heal my nervous system

• Taking milk thistle, turmeric, astragalus, dandelion root, artichoke leaf and bee pollen^ as supplements (I was never confident about my liver, so began taking those since early 2025, and have overall seen an improvement with my liver values)

• Researching ginseng supplementation for a future experiment

^ I just want to clarify the myth that bee pollen does NOT grow your boobs, girls. Sorry. I wish. But it’s great for other reasons.

I felt very proud overall. Last year and this year, I made changes to my diet and routines, which at times did not reflect the ‘social media ideals.’ I followed a personalised routine which I created based on data from my body and scientific research. It meant that I put on some weight (about 7kgs), slept at a time others called “not cool” and “unattractive,” drank a tea that was apparently “not feminine” because it “stunk,” and explained over and over why I prefer tart cherry juice over wine. I generally don’t care about judgments in social settings, but humans are visual creatures, so what poked my insecurities was actually the “online gym girls” with abs and glowing bodies (still not sure if it’s the lighting, or if they pour oil over their bodies) representing the epiphany of female health.

It was reassuring to see the rest of my results. I can’t lie; it’s very flattering to be biologically young. I felt really proud and 10x more motivated to continue the “self-care, self-respect and self-love” pathway. I’m also very excited to see David’s results back because he’s been on this journey with me for a while.

Suddenly, nothing mattered. Whether the outlines of my abs were showing, if I could do a 5kg or 10kg pull-up, if my nose appeared big from a side angle…nothing mattered. That day, I told my partner, “nothing is sexier than being healthy.” It’s true, and I wish more people felt that way. We put so much pressure on ourselves to look a certain way, so much effort to be “beautiful” (which is a one-dimensional, inflexible ideal that aims to clone women), and not enough money, time and effort into providing our bodies what we deserve (which is health).

Nothing is sexier than hiking through Tasmania with your partner at age 70, being able to rock and roll at age 80, making pottery or puzzles or baking at age 100. Nothing is sexier than vitality, kindness, and the joyful glow and excitement you carry through life.

ME: “I’m still not sure if this is real. Do you think their algorithm broke?”

HIM: “No, I knew it. That’s why I’ve been calling you a young lady all this time.”

ME (singing): “My name is Doa and I’m really glad to meet you. Hey, ooh, is this illegal? Hey, ooh, it feels illegal.”

HIM: “Ok, stop boasting. You’re such a health freak.” (Pause. Thinking…) “Though I think you’re actually legal.”

ME: “Maybe. Depends. Definitely not for marriage.”

HIM: “I guess I can call you a naughty girl and send you to your room if you talk back at me then.”

While I bounced around all day with a teen girl attitude (we joke that it’s from the excessive spermidine I have), the reality is, no one cares. I’m on this journey for myself, so there are only two people in the world I desire to make proud. And I think I achieved that.

Rejuvenation Olympics: a challenge one can participate in after completing three biological age tests within the last two years. TruDiagnostic has partnered with Bryan Johnson and Dr. Oliver Zolman to bring this ongoing longevity competition live.

TruAge Sample Report

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Most people tend to get stuck in the cycle of “I need to be a PM to be a PM,” which unfortunately gets reinforced during recruiter screening calls. Let’s rephrase this cycle with “I need some exposure and experience to be a PM.”

Exposure + Experience will help you to assess if product is something you really want to pursue. It can kick-start your learning journey, uplift your confidence, become the building blocks of your resume, and de-risk you in the job market (by proving that you have an adequate understanding of the PM role).

There are 3 types of valuable experiences:

Note: the more you can cover from this section, the more advantageous it would be. However, this isn’t a strict checklist for you to tick off.

1. Internal Experiences

These are the experiences you can currently gain from volunteering your time and energy to a product team. It might feel awkward for some people, but have an open and honest conversation with your manager about your career plans, then involve a Product Leader and a Tech Leader (depending on how large the organisation is).

If all parties are open to the idea, an arrangement could look like this:

• Joining some of the product team’s meetings or shadowing a PM for an agreed-upon amount of time

• Taking small tasks to assist the product team (i.e. writing user stories, supporting with product research or brainstorming sessions)

• Dedicating 1 full work day to act as a ‘Junior PM’ (if you are super lucky)

This will give you exposure to the day-to-day of a PM, the product mindset/culture, and how to work within a product team — great experience to have. Connecting with other PMs and software engineers during this period will also help you to familiarise yourself with the product language.

This type of exposure and experience carries a massive opportunity, as you may be supported for an internal transfer (which would be the best outcome for you).

I was lucky to work in an ecosystem of ventures where I could float between different startups, which gave me really good exposure across a range of products. I also pulled in additional hours to juggle both roles.

I’ve also seen aspiring PMs join product communities and grab temporary, unpaid side roles from their network. This is a great idea in theory, but it has the downside of a high time commitment. Your choice.

2. Self-Driven (Personal) Experiences

These are experiences you create. The main advantage is gaining a wide range of product experience (due to the freedom you’ll have). The disadvantage is the lack of a ‘professional’ setting to count this type of experience as ‘reliable’ from a hiring manager’s perspective.

It could look like…

• Picking up a side project in an area (or a problem space) you are interested in.

  • Imagine yourself as a PM, tasked to explore exciting problem spaces. Imagine your end goal is to build an MVP. How would you lead this journey?

  • Tip: your step-by-step process should broadly mimic what PMs do — research, identifying the riskiest assumptions to test, drafting low-fidelity prototypes, talking with potential users, etc.

  • Tip: try to get your hands on a variety of tools in this process (like Figma, n8n, etc) and document your progress (take notes of learnings, record user interviews, etc). Eventually, you may even consider building a hi-fidelity prototype as the final showcase (i.e. via using a front-end coding language, or AI tools like Lovable).

  • Tip: don’t be a superhero by trying to solve the world’s toughest problem. Small, simple and clearly-defined problems are easier to tackle and communicate. Don’t try to find the most intellectually complex problem to prove your intelligence; the purpose of this activity is to demonstrate that you can think and make decisions like a PM.

  • This work will shape your portfolio (and it’s quite a fun activity). You can showcase it to your hiring managers in a suitable format during an interview.

• Entrepreneurship.

  • There are a lot of crossovers between the roles of a PM and an entrepreneur. In fact, becoming an entrepreneur is a common fantasy among product people, which seems to have accelerated with the rise of AI tools. While the scope of responsibility and accountability are different, many important product skills are a part of an entrepreneur’s day-to-day (especially at the beginning of their entrepreneurial journey).

Having “self-driven” (personal) experience is very important if there isn’t much for you to refer back to from section 1.

3. Transferrable Skills

Product is the interesting intersection between users, business and tech. People from a wide variety of backgrounds can find transferable skills in product (for more elaboration, check out my prior post). Some roles even have high exposure to, or cover specific skills that are a part of a PM’s job description (i.e. BA, Product Marketing, Product Design, etc).

Examples: leading user interviews as a UX/UI Designer, driving the product pricing & packaging discussions as a Product Marketing Manager, etc.

The key is to think about how you have applied the ‘product mindset’ in your current role (and previous roles). This shouldn’t take much effort, but a bit of creative thinking, depending on how obvious the links are between your background and a PM’s role.

What types of experiences won’t be as valuable?

In the past, I’ve seen people moving into Business Analyst (BA) or Technical Project Manager roles, thinking that this would act as an intermediary role and make the transition into product easier. Unfortunately, prior to 2023, a lot of aspiring PMs received this recommendation.

I never took that pathway because I’m an impatient person; I decided to be a PM and had no intentions to mess around with adjacent roles. Looking back, I realised why moving into a BA role would have been a non-strategic/unproductive decision.

• You might think that it is a dumbed-down version of a PM’s role, but at the end of the day, it’s not a product role. It’s a BA role. Unless the company promotes all their BAs into PMs after 12 months, there is no guarantee that you will take on a product role. From a hiring manager’s perspective in external companies, ‘no product experience means no product experience.’ You may become ‘less risky’ to hire (only in comparison to other aspiring PMs with no experience), but you still won’t qualify as experienced. I’ve seen it happen multiple times — starting from scratch will give you a disappointed feeling.

  • In fact, it might even play to your disadvantage if the company doesn’t promote you from a BA to a PM role after 12 months (which happens more often than you’d imagine). Externally, you will get asked, “if you have aspirations to become a product person, given your background and experience in your company, why won’t they promote you?” (Hint: “what is wrong with you?”)

• Unlike the common belief, the BA’s role is not a dumbed-down version of a PM’s role. It is not equal to a Junior/Associate Product Manager role. In most companies, the role is completely different, with a very specific (and narrow) crossover. This will give you more exposure and 1-2 transferable hard skills, but you won’t be doing the job of a PM. In 12 months, you will still face a learning curve and will still make the mistakes of a junior PM who’s just starting their career.

  • Noting that I have come across a few companies that treated their Senior BAs as PMs, but this is quite rare.

• The types of companies that hire BAs are traditional enterprises/legacy companies (i.e. telcos, insurance, banks) that have systems and processes originated prior to the digital age (and have not fully transitioned into the modern ways of working yet). The type of “product” exposure you’ll get in such companies can be more harmful than beneficial. You might pick up bad product practices (habits) and have a different understanding of the product culture than companies that originated during the digital age. For that reason, even experienced PMs coming from such companies struggle to land their next product role.

  • Lastly, most traditional enterprises realised around 2020 that they are facing a risk of elimination by the competition. There’s been a rush of digital transformation over the past 5 years to catch the speed of market innovation. Even legacy organisations are now slamming the ‘AI’ label on their features. The role of BA is redundant in modern ways of working, and traditional enterprises recognise that. Waves of redundancies hit BAs, Program/Service Managers, Scrum Masters and Technical Project Managers between 2023-2025. This is not a space you want to enter into.

Note that I am specifically criticising the career move into a BA/Program/Service Manager/Scrum Master/Technical Project Manager role to later become a Product Manager. If you already have this background, by all means, play it to your advantage (refer to the “transferable skills” and “internal experiences” sections of this post).

Hope this was helpful! We all need to start from somewhere, and each person’s career journey is different. I tend to hear a deep sigh and regretful language coming from people who have invested 5-10 years into a career before realising that they belong in the world of product. It’s the “I’ve wasted my time” sentiment.

Over the past 18 months, I’ve learnt that there is no “right” pathway through your career, but instead “right” attitudes and mindsets one can adopt. After all, life is way more exciting and rewarding when we experience novelty, seek out new challenges and chapters.

All the images I use have been generated using deepai.org (the pop art generator). 🦸‍♀️

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To bring everyone on the same page, Whoop is a wearable (band around your wrist) that tracks resting heart rate (RHR), heart rate variability (HRV), sleep data (i.e. REM, sleep stress, sleep debt, etc), skin temperature, respiratory rate, blood oxygen %, daily stress levels, exercise-related data (i.e. cardio zones, strain scores, etc), calories burned, daily steps, VO2Max, and a few other things. Based on this data, it also provides a Whoop Age (some form of biological age) and Speed of Ageing figures. You can also set an alarm to wake up via a silent vibrating band (instead of an annoyingly loud phone alarm).

In this article, you will find…

• Backstory

• What I Love about Whoop

• What Would I Love to See Improve/Change

• Should You Buy Whoop?

• My Results & Aiming for a North Star

Backstory

I bought Whoop 3 months ago. Up to that point, every part of my longevity research was going pretty good, according to my judgement and backed up by comprehensive blood test results. I was eating relatively healthy, going to the gym for strength training (building a very good amount of muscle), running, etc. But there was something I could not figure out. I felt that I could hack anything, except for injury prevention. Somehow, I was constantly getting injured without clear indicating signs. That might sound odd for some people, because with the number of injuries that I was getting a year, I could be taken as a pro athlete.

My partner made a comment about how the only thing that I don’t track is my sleep. He didn’t grab my attention much with that comment because I was waking up with so much energy, almost a rush, every morning. So, I assumed that I was sleeping very well. Ok, that was 25% of my reason. 15% was due to cost; wearables are expensive! To be fair, most HealthTech tools are not cheap, so I was already spending thousands of dollars every year towards my health. The remaining 60% was simply because I hated wearables — anything that made contact with my skin, including hats (took me years to get used to the feeling), sunnies, most creams, jewellery, and make-up. I often start out with the best intentions (such as seeing a beautiful bracelet and buying it), then get itchy, fidgety, out of focus, disrupted mood, and eventually give up. Knowing this doesn’t help to justify the cost of Whoop.

David was familiar with wearables, as he used to own an Oura ring (until he lost it). A few weeks later, he said, “Whoop has expanded a lot since I last checked. They’re tracking a lot more, targeting athletes.” That sparked my curiosity.

I read through the website and other people’s reviews online. To be honest, I didn’t do much of a product comparison between Whoop, Oura and Garmin. However, I researched why collecting additional data could be useful, and realised 4 things which further captured my interest.

• There is something called ‘overtraining syndrome.’

  • Sounds obvious, right? Of course, one can over train, and even healthy habits overly done can become unhealthy. I just assumed that the only people at risk of training too much were pro athletes. Given how much I pay attention to my health, it sounds like a dumb miss, but I always looked at movement from a ‘what can I do’ perspective, not ‘what not to do.’

• Under-eating, chronic stress and non-optimal sleep can also lead to overtraining.

• Sleep highly impacts cognitive and nervous system health in the long term.

  • In a 2021 research, Whoop found that “for every 45 minutes of sleep debt a person accrued, they had a 5-10% decrease in mental control the following day.”

  • Frontiers in Psychiatry 2018 review article revealed “the dynamic relationship that exists between sleep and symptoms [hallucinations and delusions], with reductions in sleep duration being directly followed by increases in psychotic symptom severity with a time lag of approximately 1 day… [This] has also been reported in individuals with no history of psychiatric illness.”

  • Huberman Lab podcast in 2023 with Gina Poe discussed the importance of REM sleep in therapy and even for daily stressors, “as it allows the emotional intensity of memories to be reduced without the influence of norepinephrine.”

  • JAMA Neurology 2023 article revealed that a 1.5% reduction in deep sleep per year for people over the age of 60 was associated with a 27% increase in the risk of dementia.

• It’s not just emotional stress that strains the nervous system, but also physical stress.

Side note: a product/solution to ‘join the dots’ via stitching together health data and acting as an independent longevity coach (powered by AI) is going to be increasingly difficult to execute in the HealthTech market. Every wearable or health-tracking solution seems to have recognised this opportunity and is moving in the direction of tracking health ‘holistically’, building an ecosystem, so their users don’t bounce off into other HealthTech products for varying purposes. Clever and expected. This is a space that I was originally interested in exploring and building an MVP.

In short, I decided to purchase Whoop and investigate my body in a new way. That’s how the Whoop exploration began. I was overly excited, slightly nervous, and had no idea what to expect.

What Do I Love About Whoop?

Note: I am a user AND a Product Manager. Don’t judge me if I use fancy product words — can’t help it sometimes.

An Onboarding Flow That Fuelled My Excitement

Whoop’s onboarding flow is an example for other PMs, especially for those who work in industries where the users are not the experts in the field. The onboarding experience is one of the best I’ve had; it’s exceptional at building a relationship with users over a 5-week period.

On Day 1, Whoop laid out a timeline and gave promises about when certain features would be ready to view. Whoop’s transparency set clear expectations, built trust, credibility, and anticipation to uncover hidden information (data points). This anticipation kept me hooked during the first 5 weeks.

As each feature unlocked, a new insight and information was revealed, like a mystery hunt. I got to learn something new about myself every week. The onboarding journey was clearly customer-centric and product led.

Being used to either very short onboarding experiences, or worse, ones that are marketing-driven (and will send you a promotional email every few days until you unsubscribe), Whoop impressed me.

Whoop Prioritises Education

Inside every section of the app, you can find small pieces of information relating to a metric. Most of the time, there will also be a video and a link (to a longer educational article) attached to it. I’m a curious and nerdy person when it comes to health, so I read through a lot of their content. Whoop explains the ‘how’ and ‘why’ really well. This is important for me to trust a HealthTech company and see them as credible, instead of a ‘happy talk, feel good vibes’ company (which sadly, some are in this booming industry).

For personalised questions, the Whoop Coach surpassed my expectations. Most AI chatbots tend to spit out generic advice. The Whoop Coach had access to my data, was transparent with its communication, and has a ‘can do’/problem solving attitude (just like a PT).

• Example: I asked where I could find HBOT, because I wanted to select it as my recovery activity. Whoop Coach said, while there isn’t an option under ‘activities’ for HBOT, I can log it via the ‘journal’ option.

• Example: I asked Whoop Coach’s help to understand my daily calories burned, as it seemed too low in the app. We collaborated to unpack how the app’s algorithm works, and discovered that it doesn’t factor body fat % into account (which causes the low calorie calculation). Whoop Coach then suggested an idea; it could share with me what the algorithm has as my BMR, so I can calculate the difference, as I had a BMR calculated based on my body fat % at a Dexa Scan place. We figured out a solution together, and I began to add 150 calories on top of the app’s calculation per day.

Lastly, when Whoop prioritises education, it’s empowering me to work with a wearable/HealthTech product like teammates and take responsibility for my wellbeing and goals. I really like that attitude.

Whoop Band is Comfortable (For Real)

That was a BIG relief for me. 60% of me was convinced that I wasted my money on a product that I was not able to wear.

As mentioned before, anything that contacts my skin (other than basic clothing items) makes me highly uncomfortable. I must admit, during the first week of wearing Whoop, I wasn’t very optimistic, because I woke up 4x with an aching wrist and pulled off the band. Then, I began to wear my band looser but higher up (above my wrist). That solved the issue. I am glad that the Whoop band is very comfortable during sleep, running and swimming. It’s soft and stretchy.

Note: I tighten the band a bit more before swimming, otherwise the water can loosen it.

I am also usually skeptical of ‘one size fits all’ products, as I can fit into children’s clothes (petite women’s problem). However, the Whoop band is very flexible and adjustable.

It Allows for Experimentation via Journalling

Whoop has a journalling section to record behaviours and detect their correlation to sleep and recovery scores. The journal section has a huge range of options, like the use of specific supplements, habitual behaviours, dietary changes, moods & stressors, and sleep environment. Being able to log factors that impact my well-being has several advantages.

• I became more self-aware and decided to change some of my habits

• I ran experiments to identify the impact of new habits

• I learned about different behaviours that others were doing, and felt curious to try some

It Knows When I’m On the Move

Whoop can auto-detect activities based on heart rate (most of the time). There were a few times when I forgot to select ‘hike’ or ‘run.’ Once my activity finished, Whoop sent a notification that an activity was detected. I would love to see their auto-detection improve for more accuracy.

It Acknowledges Physical Labor

We often think about exercise as a solo cardio activity, gym session, or a team sport. We often forget how tiring physical labour is. There is a big difference between working at a busy cafe as a waitress vs working from an office. Whoop acknowledges that via a large selection of ‘activities’ that one can select. Some of them are a bit weird, like chess, dedicated parenting, darts, DJ, driving, but hey, some people do these activities intensely, I guess.

Side note: given how many interesting activities one can log, I’m surprised there isn’t an option for cheeky late-night activities. 😏

However, reading Reddit threads on creative ways to log such activities was quite amusing. Ranges from yoga, to circus acts, to manual labour, to wrestling, to horseback riding …

It’s Fashionable

You can wear Whoop as a wrist band, bicep band, inside your sports bra and your training shorts. It comes in so many different colours. I’m quite tempted to get their Italian leather band (for fancy events) as a reward once I tick a major goal.

It Woke Me Up in the Most Beautiful Way

Never have I ever imagined to be woken up by a vibrating band. That is genius! I thought I would always have to jump out of the bed in shock, trying to find my phone in the dark to turn it off. Whoop alarms are awesome.

Slick User Experience

Navigating through the app is intuitive and easy. I can customise my dashboard to surface my priorities. The app surfaces helpful information. It’s fun to log into Whoop and check my dashboard. I really appreciate that.

Whoop is Becoming a Super HealthTech App

Integrations

Whoop connects with Cronometer (nutrition tracking product), Whitings (smart scale), Hyperice (recovery tools), Strava (running app), TrainingPeaks (training product with remote coaching), Apple Health and Health Connect.

Given the number of health tracking products in the market, one of our big problems as health-conscious consumers is gathering, organising and making sense of scattered pieces of data. This is a relatively new challenge, as historically, most of us struggled to access information and learn about our bodies — now, if one wishes to, they could be flooded with info. Integrations don’t fully resolve this problem, but it makes my life a bit easier. So, I appreciate it.

Advanced Labs

Some people complain about Whoop Age and Whoop Pace of Ageing because it views individuals through a limited set of information. You can be very athletic and have a consistent sleep schedule, but regularly consume ultra processed foods, be a candidate for skin cancer due to your obsession with tanning, drink alcohol every weekend, vape, etc. Advanced labs (blood markers) were the missing piece for a trustable Whoop Age result.

Advanced Labs have also been the missing piece for a ‘super app’. Whoop is increasingly becoming the go-to destination for a centralised health dataset, where in the future, doctors (including dieticians, longevity coaches and psychologists) can plug and view their patients through a holistic lens, factoring their lifestyle and habits into account.

When a company enters the ‘super app’ territory/classification, user retention increases because it becomes increasingly more convenient to solve all your problems (and keep all your data) in one reputable place. I’ve observed this happening even in situations when the core product is good, but some of its features as stand-alone services aren’t the best — it’s still more convenient to stick with the same company.

In short, this is quite a strategic move and I hope it works out well for them.

What Would I Love to See Improve/Change…

Having ‘Overtraining’ or ‘Injury’ Modes

I purchased Whoop to understand why I was consistently getting injured. By the time Whoop arrived to our house, I was sure that I was overtrained. I checked the boxes for ‘overtraining syndrome’ both mentally and physically. I expected Whoop to check on me during the onboarding flow to see if I am injured, overtrained, have trauma, expected to get a major surgery, etc — some question to set the right expectations. It didn’t. So, what happened?

First two nights Whoop gave me red recovery scores, flagged my unusually high heart rate and unusually low HRV, then quickly adapted, thinking that this is who I am. It saw unhealthy results as my norm and anything that showed to be a bit better than my unhealthy results were flagged to be ‘amazing recovery.’ It lowered the bar for me. I could not trust the recovery scores Whoop was giving me during the first month.

An adaptive algorithm is usually positive, but it can become a negative factor when it doesn’t take the full context (certain temporary situations) into account. As a user, I would like to be able to switch on and off a mode to indicate temporary situations, like injuries or surgeries. While I can select these options in the ‘journal,’ that does not impact the overall recovery scores.

Goal Setting to Connect With Actionable Insights

Whoop asked me about my goals during onboarding. I don’t remember what I selected. However, I remember…

1. I only had 3 options to choose from, and none of them particularly felt relatable to me. They were quite generic/vague.

2. Whoop did nothing about my goal. It didn’t try to coach me, gave me insights to achieve my goal, or checked on my progress. I guess when the goal options are so vague, there isn’t anything specific to work towards. I had an expectation for Whoop to guide me towards achieving my goals. There is a lot to unpack here, but this might look like suggesting certain bedtime routines, putting together a recovery plan, guiding with progressive overload for workouts, etc.

   Update Feb 26: a like-minded PM in Whoop has taken this idea and put it in action. You can now set much detailed goals with Whoop coach, receive guidance and check-ins to track progress.

   In that case, let me make a further suggestion, involving product design. I’d love to see this experience expand beyond just a chat bot.

Partnership/Collaboration with Psychologists

Within the first 4 weeks of using Whoop, I was reminded of my past once again. Unlike the common belief in out society, C-PTSD’s impacts are not restricted to emotional wellbeing and romantic relationship success. In fact, some of the physical symptoms of trauma can be life-long, hence why some countries describe it as a ‘chronic illness’.

For those who don’t know much about C-PTSD symptoms, here is a list of physical long-lasting effects: unusually elevated RHR, unusually low HRV, unusually high stress levels (especially during night), chronic pain (generally headaches, stomach cramps, tight jaw, throat and heart ache), and poor sleep performance (due to nightmares, broken sleep, and/or insomnia).

A way that I am using Whoop right now is to track C-PTSD symptoms. When I shared my Whoop data with my psychologist, she mentioned that this is enlightening information to see. While clinical psychologists and psychiatrists are taught about the physical symptoms of C-PTSD clients, it’s rare for them to get a view of actual data in real time. Most patients don’t go through the effort of purchasing a wearable like Whoop and sharing these insights.

I cannot be the only one getting this benefit out of Whoop.

• About 7-8% of people will experience PTSD at some point in their lives. Some quick Googling reveals…

• About 2-8% of people have C-PTSD. Note that research is lacking for the appropriate diagnosis of C-PTSD, as it is a newer diagnosis (when compared to PTSD).

• 30.5% people worldwide have been exposed to +4 traumatic events in their lifetime.

• An unusually low HRV is also seen in people with mental health disorders, including chronic depression and anxiety.

• Psychiatric disorders affect 21% of adults and 49.5% of adolescents in America.

• In 2020-21, 17% of Australians and 16.8% of Americans saw a health professional for their mental health. These %s have increased year on year.

I can connect the dots between recovering from trauma or a mental health illness, therapy/treatment sessions and Whoop insights. I believe both patients and clinical psychologists (or psychiatrists) can benefit from Whoop’s data to track progress.

Side note: I am still not able to rely on the recovery insights by Whoop, as I’m running a (successful) experiment to uplift my HRV, causing me to see high recovery scores on almost all days of the week. When I see a sudden drop in my HRV, it’s almost never related to my physical strain, but instead related to a triggering situation I’ve experienced during the day.

Side note: if Whoop gave me the option to write my goals (instead of using 3 generic options), I would include “reducing C-PTSD symptoms (specifically, reduce RHR, increase HRV, reduce sleep stress).”

The Calories Burned Count

Or shall I say, the calories burned not counted? I read an intense thread with over 2.5k views and many contributors about the sensitive ‘calories burned’ topic. Everyone on the thread needed to know their calorie count for a different reason — building muscle, loosing weight, toning, shredding, shrinking, bulking, pumping, you name it! I had a laugh about it, even though I am guilty (but not guilty) of being a calorie counter myself.

On this thread, people were comparing their calories burned numbers between different wearables, especially Whoop vs Oura / Garmin. It seems like some people receive a very similar result, while others receive quite a big difference.

By the way, if anyone calls me an obsessive tracker again, I will point to the number of people who own 2-3 wearables that literally track the same metrics just to calculate the average of every data point. I only own 4 devices to track different metrics. Only… 🫣

The two issues that I picked up which could be contributing to a miscalculation were…

1. Sometimes, Whoop doesn’t think I burn calories from about 8pm onwards. I understand that sleeping doesn’t require a lot of energy, but when I see that I burned 5 calories between 8pm to midnight, it makes me feel like a robot with a very efficient ‘energy saving’ mode on. Sometimes, it thinks I burned 20 calories, which isn’t much better either. Occasionally, it thinks I burned 100 calories. I am quite certain that even petite women burn between 30-60 calories while sleeping (and my bedtime is not 8pm).

2. Whoop’s understanding of my BMR is not based on body fat % — it’s based on an approximation of women my age, height and weight. Muscle requires more energy to maintain than fat, therefore my BMR is actually 150 calories higher than what Whoop thinks it is. I drew to this conclusion after asking Whoop Coach what my BMR is, then comparing it to the BMR I have from Dexa Scans. To be super clear, on my “rest” days (when I still walk 10k steps), Whoop thinks I burn 1300 calories, when my BMR is 1359. 😬 It makes me wonder…are my organs doing ok?

Getting a bit more precise in this area will probably upset less people.

Also, I would really like to see a ‘hydration log’. There is an option in the journal, but I want a separate feature visible on the dashboard where I can click a ‘+’ sign every time I drink a glass of water. Drinking an adequate amount of water is so important for organ health and recovery from strenuous exercise. While we tend to put a lot of emphasis on food intake, I don’t think we do a good enough job to think about hydration. I struggle to drink enough water, so one of my monthly goals is to finish 1.5 bottles of water every day. Whoop could also find correlations between the amount of water someone drinks and their recovery. That would be interesting to see.

Journal Entry Correlations with Recovery Data

Entering in daily habits and behaviours to the Whoop journal is great — I already mentioned that. However, it is quite funny to see how the algorithm on ‘recovery insights’ work sometimes.

• Seeing that having a late night takeout improving my recovery score makes my eyes roll, when I know that it’s actually due to taking a rest day from the gym.

• Seeing that NSDR doesn’t make a difference in my recovery score is also quite surprising, as that is sadly the only activity which allows my heart rate to drop below 60, my stress scores to remain below 0.5, and my breathing to calm down. (Spoiler Alert for a future post).

I understand that there are a lot of variables Whoop needs to learn, so it goes through a phase of correlating any two variables that exist at the same time (i.e. the classic, ‘during summers, more people eat ice cream and there are more shark attacks’ correlation). Entering my third month of using Whoop, the ‘recovery insights’ have certainly improved, but it is still not great. Zooming out to the big picture, I am planning to be a Whoop user for many years, so this is not so much of an issue for me.

Personalised Plans

Joining the dots here, Whoop has access to our health metrics, physical activity routines, recovery routines, behavioural/lifestyle data, and our goals. Whoop Coach is cool and helpful when I have questions to ask. What if it was more proactive?

What if the Whoop Coach introduced itself to me during onboarding and asked if I am interested in a comprehensive coach who can give holistic advice that is personalised? I’d take it. Athletes with coaches may not. But I would.

What would I expect to see in return?

1. Whoop Coach to discuss my top 2 health goals.

2. Whoop Coach to ask/observe my lifestyle choices (i.e. can I afford to go to HBOT multiple times a week?) and my daily habits (i.e. despite having the best intentions for keeping a regular bedtime routine, am I always running late and building a sleep debt?).

3. Whoop Coach to provide achievable actions I can take to meet these goals. This doesn’t have to be a gym exercise routine, although I would be open to this too. This could look like a comprehensive recovery program (rest day routine). It can look like a more achievable bedtime routine and tips (i.e. set an alarm as a reminder to wind down before bed). Or stress management techniques.

4. Encouragement or feedback cycle, which can be an opportunity to change action points (i.e. “this isn’t working for me because of XYZ”).

With Whoop Advanced Labs, there could even be an opportunity to build personalised programs that factors blood tests into account (i.e. metabolic health, hormonal health, brain/cognitive health).

Update Feb 26: like my comment under “Goal Setting to Connect With Actionable Insights,” there has been a lot of progress in this concept, mostly via the chat bot feature (the “Whoop Coach”). Users can now also create their own health plans, which is great.

Some Awesome Features are Not Available in Australia

Blood Pressure Insights and Advanced Labs are not available in Australia.

It’s a bummer to see that most HealthTech companies I follow and would love to try out are not selling to Australia for a variety of reasons, including regulations. Also a bummer to see that similar companies don’t exist in Australia and some awesome local HealthTech startups are taking their business to the US. However, I totally understand why the founders would choose that pathway.

Update Feb 26: users outside of the US can now manually upload their blood test results into the app. Confessing that I haven’t explored this feature yet, but that’s only because I have my own locally-hosted AI Personal Assistant that I’m training in a ‘health domain’.

Device Syncing Challenges

While sleep is supposed to be auto-detected, I’ve had an ongoing issue with its consistency.

• During the first 3 weeks of wearing Whoop, almost every second day, my app’s screen would be frozen, showing the previous day’s results. I would refresh the page and see that it has synced to 5.32 am, but the rest of the screen would continue to show the previous day’s data. About 10 minutes later, it would refresh to the correct date, but would not show any sleep data. About 30 minutes later, I would receive a notification, “did you sleep?” Once I confirm, it would take another 10 minutes to process. This was a long and really annoying drag. I tried to redownload the app and update my phone, but nothing changed. I read that if the Whoop band is too loose, tracking can be lost, but my band was certainly not loose.

• Eventually, I began to enter my sleep duration manually, rather than waiting. The data synced much quicker. 2 weeks later, my problem was mostly resolved. Now, I only have an auto-detection issue once every 10 days. I researched this issue and it seems like for some people, Whoop can take a month to learn sleep behaviours. My partner didn’t have this issue. I guess I was the unlucky one.

Also, as a multi-day hiker, it sucks to know that I can’t take Whoop with me. Whoop collects and stores data for up to 3 days when WiFi is unavailable. But my multi-day hikes are hardcore (+7 days).

Updates Feb 26:

• Detection of ‘sleep’ AND ‘activity’ has improved so much. Very accurate over the past month, even when I am out of reception for multiple days.

• Whoop won my ❤️ after I completed the Western Arthur’s Traverse earlier this month. Whoop can now track and sync activity without any reception for 6 days! I received incredible data. Thank you, Whoop team!

Community Engagement

I was very excited to see a ‘community’ section and other Whoop user profiles. But I soon realised that the community section only allows for passive engagement. The idea of being a part of ‘Melbourne Whoop users’ or ‘Melbourne weightlifters’ is great in theory, but I can’t actually connect with anyone.

I would have liked to be able to ask questions in Whoop groups, share information, or say, “hey, anyone keen to join me on this cool hike that I found” in the ‘hiking group’ — something that makes me feel more connected.

Side note: I tried to host a Melbourne Whoop Enthusiasts Meetup group and only one person joined, so perhaps I am the only user who is keen to connect.

The Nitty Gritty Details on Activities

I tend to to use ‘other’ and ‘other — recovery’ more than I would like to. I would like to understand why certain recovery activities can only be logged within the ‘journal’ section, and not under ‘other — recovery.’ Below are some examples from my perspective. I appreciate that each person’s wish list would be different.

• Under ‘activities,’ I would like to see bouldering. When selecting ‘hiking,’ I would like to be able to enter in pack weight (as I train with weighted packs). When selecting ‘weightlifting,’ I would like to be able to select ‘band’ just like ‘dumbbells’ (i.e. banded hip thrusts), battle ropes (for waves and slams) and a larger variety of exercises (i.e. hip thrust pulses, reversed lunges, single leg calf raises).

• Under ‘other — recovery,’ I would like to see HBOT, float tank salt bath (or sensory deprivation tank), vagal nerve stimulation device, and red light therapy.

• Under ‘journal,’ I would like to see puzzles and colouring/painting by numbers.

Updates Feb 26: more activities and recoveries are getting added!

Should You Buy Whoop?

3 months ago, I would have said, YES YES YES!

That was before I received some judgement from others.

Yes, strangely, some people judge you for wearing wearables to track your health. We live in that sort of a world.

Who would have known that wearing Whoop made me an obsessive, eating disordered, exercise addicted, greedy (supposedly for wanting to be healthy) woman (according to some people)?

My learnings from discussing food trackers have been reaffirmed once again. Unfortunately, our society has become very sensitive with the topic of health. We have been burned by unrealistic body standards, faux diets, and our failures that came from unscientific information. Now, anything to do with ‘health’ triggers us.

It’s not all black and white, people! Observing your caloric intake doesn’t have to lead to an eating disorder. Noting down your exercise routine doesn’t need to lead to an exercise addiction. Trying to get better sleep scores doesn’t need to turn into a sleep obsession.

Data doesn’t drive us into madness. It’s how we interact with the data (our attitude) that does. I believe it is possible (and healthy) to approach data with curiosity, instead of criticism and judgement. But, that’s just my opinion.

No, Whoop is not for everyone. I believe some people should have never bought Whoop, nor an Oura ring, nor a Garmin watch.

Here is how you know if Whoop is right for you: answer these questions. ⬇️

What will you do with Whoop?

How do you envision your life to be once you see insights from Whoop? Are you ready to redo some aspects of your life, if necessary?

Everyone seems to love the idea of progress until they realise that it requires change.

Do you enjoy setting goals? How easy is it for you to bring change into your life? Are you the sort of person who can follow through a checklist or start a new habit? If so, when was the last time you actually did that with success?

Changing habits isn’t easy. Sometimes, it’s costly (to our time, money, energy, etc). Sometimes, forcing a change can be too stressful to be worth the effort.

But there is no point in seeing data if you are not going to do anything about it. Wearables are not cheap and they are not toys (even though I have a lot of fun with them). The real value in these products is turning insights into action and making progress with your health. If you are not willing to do that, Whoop is probably not the right product.

Side note: sometimes, it’s not us, but it’s the situation we are in. It’s really challenging to bring change to your life when there is already so much going on. One thing at a time — this is one of the key lessons I learned in 2025. Maybe, you won’t be getting a good night sleep because you have a 6 month old baby. Maybe you are burnt out, or going through grief, or a divorce, or another major life event. Maybe this year is not the right time, but next year is.

How do you handle failure? What’s your relationship with data?

Everyone seems to love the idea of data until it’s not what they expected.

3 days ago, Whoop’s social team posted, “Whoop is designed to give you context, not judgment.”

Data tends to mirror parts of ourselves back to us, especially personal data, such as health data. It sucks to try and incorporate a new habit that you thought would improve X, but after 2-3 months, it turned out to be a waste of time. I get it.

When you don’t achieve goals, do you feel shame? Or do you approach with curiosity and ask, “why didn’t this work, was it realistic, how could I have done this differently?”

As I’m interested in the HealthTech industry, I often engage in conversations with others about health data. I’m curious to understand people’s relationship with their health. These conversations led me to think that the type of people who avoid data are also the type of people who feel deep shame about not hitting certain marks/targets.

Someone I met at an AI event hit the spot with their explanation.

“I don’t use Whoop anymore. It’s so depressing. Always gives me a red recovery score. It makes me feel like I am always doing something wrong. And it’s so stressful. Every night used to be a rush because I had to have sleep consistency. Every morning used to be a rush because I had to either hit my step count, or Zone 2 or 3 or 4 cardio. It’s not realistic. Just another product that screams at your face, you suck.”

I felt their words in my heart. I wish this wasn’t their experience and they didn’t feel so bad about themselves. But if you resonate with this ex-user sentiment, then Whoop is not for you.

Do you have patience for progress?

I wish I could do body recomposition in a month and reach my ideal image. Except, it’s probably going to take me years, if I ever even reach an ‘ideal’ image.

I wish I could improve my VO2Max from 50 to 55 in 2 weeks. Except, it’s been 3 months and I only moved from 49 to 50.

I wish I could achieve the best version of myself in 2-3 months, like the other girls on YouTube do. Except, those videos were never real anyway. 🙄

If you want Whoop for quick wins, then you’re up for disappointment. It’s very rare to get quick wins when it comes to your health. Our bodies don’t dramatically change within a month. Even implementing new habits take time.

Whoop is a long-term tool for your long-term gains.

Do you get influenced by data a lot?

8 September 2025, on Huberman Podcast, Andrew talked about a Whoop experiment he was doing. This pulled my interest.

“I’m doing an experiment on myself where I measure my subjective feelings of rest and alertness and energy, and compare it to the data. And the only way to do that properly is to not glance at the data first thing in the morning. Because it just biases how you feel.

Our colleague, Alia Crum at Stanford has done some nice experiments where they tell people after a genuinely poor night’s sleep they got a great sleep, or they tell people after a great night’s sleep they got poor sleep. They showed them sleep score and gave some data — and it’s false data, basically. People’s levels of alertness, wellbeing, etc, are strongly biased by what they are told their sleep was like, as opposed to what it actually was like.

This is a big deal… These mindset effects are really powerful. So, I look at my sleep data once in every two or three days.”

So, I guess we all get influenced by data. However, if seeing a poor sleep or recovery score is going to ruin your day (emotionally), then you might want to (re)think about how to best use Whoop.

Currently, I don’t find this to have a negative impact on my life, because as I mentioned before, my recovery scores heavily depend on whether or not I engage in HRV uplifting techniques. So, I tend to get a lot of greens. Yay, me! In short, I have no other choice but to rely on my feelings.

My Results & Aiming for a North Star

Over the last 3 months, I uncovered 3 main insights (none involving sleep, as I’m quite good at that).

1. I was overtrained. And with a right knee (patella tendon) injury.

   Short to medium term goal: Rehab, safely and slowly getting back on track, factoring in points 2 and 3 below.

   Result: Success. I’m actually stronger than I was before. ✅

2. I was under-eating. In fact, based on the calories burned figures that Whoop has been providing me, I don’t think I ever adequately ate.

   This cleared up why I was randomly hypoglycaemic multiple times during the day. It also cleared up my consistent injuries.

   Medium-term goal: Gradually increase caloric intake to reach maintenance. Experiment with a blood glucose monitor to see if further intervention is required.

   Result: Getting there. Almost a success. This is the third month in a row that I have increased my caloric intake. I gained 2-2.5kg, which makes me uncomfortable for sure, but hopefully some of it is muscle. ✅

3. My nervous system was damaged from C-PTSD.

   My resting heart rate was concerningly high for my fitness level and age, at 72. My HRV scared me, as it was equivalent to that of people in their 70s, at 20s. I had 7 hours of high stress during my sleep (what on earth was I doing in my sleep).

   Let’s unpack what a low HRV means, as there are too many people commenting online that this metric does not matter. Below is general information, not necessarily any personal issues.

   • An increased risk of cardiovascular disease later on in life.

   • An unusually low HRV is a representation of a dysregulated nervous system.

   • A dysregulated nervous system is linked to damaged hormonal health and loss of periods (as the body doesn’t ovulate while perceiving constant danger).

   • Without a regulated nervous system, an individual cannot have consistent resilience. Stressful events can easily translate to trauma in the brain.

   • A dysregulated nervous system is linked to hypervigilence, difficulty concentrating during the day, and an inability to relax.

   • Without a healthy nervous system, recovery is very challenging, which increases the chances of physical injuries after strenuous workouts.

   • The immune system weakens over time, and the individual becomes more susceptible to illnesses/infections with a dysregulated nervous system.

   • Lastly, the nervous system connects the gut and the brain through the vagus nerve. I am quite certain that a dysregulation in this axis won’t do any good to either the brain or the gut.

   Long-term goal: Improve HRV. Simple, but really not that simple.

The North Star 🌟

How does one improve their HRV? Online forums about HRV written by people with C-PTSD are quite depressing. My extensive research wasn’t uplifting either.

• Improving HRV is hard for everyone.

• There are some information about how to improve HRV for healthy individuals with regular levels of daily stress (i.e. stress that comes from a challenging job).

• There is very minimal information about how to improve HRV for people with C-PTSD, and most comes from anecdotal experiences. The only widely accepted treatment for improving HRV is EMDR therapy, with an expected increase of about 10 points.

  • Given that I have already been through this (and can attest that it is the most effective and life-changing therapy one can receive), I cannot even imagine what my HRV was before therapy.

• Anecdotal experiences reveal that improving HRV with C-PTSD is almost an impossible mission. Most successful people start somewhere between 10-30 HRV and tend to only uplift their scores by 10-15 points from a decade of trying.

There isn’t enough research done on people with C-PTSD. While we know that repeated complex trauma experienced during childhood impacts DNA, the brain structure and functioning, hormonal health and different organ systems, most research is still observational.

Now, I’m on a mission impossible: I am determined to improve my HRV in a way that can become an example for others. My North Star is to match my peers, which means I have a lifetime to not double, not triple, but quadruple my HRV. Maybe that is mission impossible. But as I said, I have a lifetime to make it happen.

My exploration began on the 1st of August 2025. I am keen to try therapies, treatments, supplements and behavioural changes that range from simple adjustments to advanced routines. I’ll also note that I have already seen remarkable success and will be revealing a list of my experiments in the upcoming months.

So, if you know anyone who is going through a similar journey or has a trauma background, this and some of my future posts may be beneficial to them.

If you are also a researcher, I’d love to get in touch and exchange information.

Final Words

Whoop has been an enlightening product for me — one of the best purchases I made for my health. I would have never guessed that Whoop took me to the specific path I am on now. But life is full of surprises when one is curious to explore their opportunities.

To be honest, I would have probably been impressed by Oura or Garmin as well. But at the time of my purchase, I chose Whoop (the thought of wearing a ring felt worse than wearing a watch, Garmin’s website was too cluttered with choices, and I was too lazy to run a comparison analysis). And I’m glad it turned out that way.

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Plot twist: the number 1 feedback I received after the job interviews I sat was not a lack of experience. It was… 🥁🥁🥁… not being technical enough. No, I was not applying to “Technical PM” roles or to work with technically complex architectures.

This repeated while helping aspiring PMs land their first product roles; I heard this type of feedback many other times. Rephrasing a conversation I had with someone from North America:

“They said that they really liked me, and I’m really smart, but given I didn’t come from a product background, they preferred to hire someone who at least came from a developer background. Then I asked again, does this role require coding skills? They said, no. I don’t get it, Doa.”

If the Product Manager role does not require coding skills, then what is the fuss?

Why is hiring an inexperienced PM with a developer background considered to be the “safer” option, in comparison to backgrounds in other roles?

I’ll be blunt about it. There are 3 main reasons.

1. Psychological safety of the hiring manager.

2. ‘Product expertise’ will rely on being able to understand technical concepts (to some degree).

3. The technical skills you have will be highly advantageous for execution. And entry-level PM roles rely heavily on execution.

If you are an aspiring PM receiving this type of prejudice, at the end of each section, I will touch on a variety of tips & tricks.

Let’s get it out of the way and start with the ‘psychological safety of the hiring manager.’

Firstly, there are plenty of product leaders who will not favour or discriminate against certain backgrounds over others when hiring a junior PM in their teams. But some product leaders or founders will. This section is for the latter case.

➡️ As a PM, the best teachers I had to help me with technical concepts were developers. If someone is not advanced with their technical knowledge, it is challenging for them to teach/transfer those technical skills to you. It’s easier to hire someone who already comes from a technical background, so the hiring manager only has to worry about coaching them on the other aspects of product management.

➡️ Even if the hiring decision for the Junior Product Manager role was wrong, you can’t possibly blame the Head of Product for hiring someone from the developer community.

Scenario A: If you onboard a tech vendor that has an equal amount of downsides as to the upsides, but it’s the most reputable product in the market, then the business is more likely to see the glass half full.

Scenario B: If you onboard a tech vendor that has less amount of downsides to the product in Scenario A (or is a better fit to your use case overall), but it doesn’t have the ‘market leadership’ (maybe because the team is small, they’re a startup, etc), then the business is more likely to see the glass half empty.

Think of the vendors that “everyone” just goes with, or wants to explore, even when the solution is not the best fit for their problem. Without even understanding the problem-solution compatibility, some people just know (they feel it in their guts) that AWS (or Microsoft, or Salesforce, or any other market leader) is the best.

There’s even a saying about this from yesteryear. “No one ever got fired for buying Big Blue”… where Big Blue was IBM.

Love human psychology! If you used to be a developer, of course, you can work with other developers! Of course, this proves that you are highly intelligent, analytical and data-driven. Therefore, of course, you are the best fit to be a product manager!

Don’t get me wrong, reputations do form for a reason. I’m not arguing that developers are not intelligent or not analytical. I’m just pointing out that these qualities are not reserved for the front-end and back-end developer roles only. However, if a UI designer has difficulty adjusting to their new PM role, the team might jump to the conclusion that it’s because they were a UI designer (instead of a developer).

➡️ There is an assumption that if you used to be a developer, you know what you’re getting yourself into as a PM.

Side note, half of the time, developers don’t know any more than folks from other backgrounds.

On the other hand, if you used to be a marketer, maybe… you think that product is a cool job, and when you get to face the truth of being a PM, you will feel confused and intimidated by the technical concepts, and back out.

➡️ Unfortunately, there is also an assumption that developers are more analytical and brainy than others. Don’t get me started on that. No.

On that point, actually, ‘product’ suffers a bit from ego and elitism. It originated from Silicon Valley, where the first groups of PMs drove huge wins for companies which became unicorns. There is this idea that product managers are super intelligent and unique because they are fast, adaptable, creative, but also analytical, big picture, but also see the finer details, driving the tech, hero of the customers, a bridge to the marketers, like a CEO, but not a CEO, etc, etc.

This way of thinking, unfortunately, results in divides even within product people. Some people get judged for not working in the top 50 tech scale-ups in the country, others can be excluded from groups because apparently, one doesn’t become a real PM unless they have the Senior PM title (based on statistics of the drop-off rates within the first 5 years after someone takes on a product role). Or maybe you are “less of a PM” if you don’t have a “Technical PM” title (judgement towards “Growth PMs”), or if you don’t know how to code, even if you never use that skill in a PM role. Nowadays, this is getting even more bizarre with AI.

➡️ Lastly, while product people are quite good at stakeholder management and working cross-functionally, a part of them really dislike explaining the same concept over and over and over and over to customer support, to marketing, to finance, to sales, because they don’t get it. Sometimes, the conversations go like this:

CS: So, how come the customers need to go through this portal?

PM: As I mentioned last week, and also touched upon yesterday, this is only a temporary problem, due to…

Think of ‘babying’ every concept to customer support for the last 10 years. Would you trust hiring someone from customer support as a PM?

Note: I’m not necessarily agreeing with any of the points mentioned above, but simply laying out the ways of thinking you may encounter.

Tips & Tricks:

• Seek help from a developer and ask them to explain your relevant experience.

  • You would have noticed that developers tend to explain tasks and initiatives slightly differently from how others in the business do. Listen to how they explain business problems and solutions.

• Learn.

  • If you have time over the weekends, it’s quite fun to learn HTML and CSS, possibly the easiest coding languages, which will put you in front of a lot of other PMs. Mock up a basic website as a side project.

  • Build an n8n flow, or experiment with training AI agents. These are examples of small projects you can complete, not ‘must-haves’ in your portfolio.

  • Note that it’s not the exercise of coding that will enlighten you, but the process of thinking about how to code, instead.

Having a ‘product expertise’ will rely on being able to understand technical concepts.

The product manager acts as the bridge between tech, business and users. The triangle of PM skills that I referenced in another post exists for a reason.

Owning a product end-to-end and acting as the expert of the product isn’t just about knowing how your users interact with the product.

• It’s also about understanding how your product works, the limitations of it, and the opportunities to expand it’s value, functionality and architecture, in a technical way, even if not as granularly as a developer does.

• It’s also about giving product demos to other stakeholders, and answering a lot of ‘why,’ ‘why not,’ ‘how,’ and ‘how come’ questions. This is very important to built the trust and confidence of stakeholders across the business. I have seen PMs provide short responses to the ‘why’ questions, like, “we don’t have that capability,” or worse, “our Head of Tech said that this was too complex to execute.” Unconfident, short and vague responses cause stakeholders to go around the PM and conduct their own investigation, which never ends well.

These two points require a deeper understanding of technology. While one does not have to come from a ‘technical’ background, you can see how being an ex-developer can help.

Tips & Tricks:

• Demonstrate industry knowledge during interviews, if possible.

• When describing product initiatives you were involved in, mention the ‘why’ behind decisions that you made (and ‘why not’ for the other choices you turned down).

  • This requires you to talk about some form of product experience, whether it’s helping a product team, running your own project, etc.

The technical skills you have will be highly advantageous for execution.

The keyword here is ‘execution’ — successfully delivering a product initiative.

➡️ While the product management skills triangle points at the tech, business and customer, the more junior you are, the more likely you are expected to just deliver/execute on your manager’s direction. These product initiatives will most likely be small tasks, like ‘fix this button.’

That’s the reality of being junior in most jobs. Strategy, negotiation, drafting a roadmap, leading discovery work, etc — these skills are handy in more senior roles. Before you get to that stage, you’ll be hanging around developers a lot.

Stating the obvious, but coming from a technical background will help you to pick up on the language used by your tech team, orient yourself, and understand what’s going on with your product easier.

➡️ Let’s touch on ‘developer empathy.’ I thought I was already quite good at that (based on the feedback I received from tech teams), until I began learning how to build AI agent flows and coding.

• “Oh, I thought you would know,” suddenly became, “I’m sure this can be done, let me ask Google to save some time.”

• “You’re so protective of your form; it’s the same code, does the same thing,” suddenly became, “no, don’t touch that. It needs to be written that way. Please don’t confuse me. I already have a ton in my mind.”

It’s the little things that changed about me. As I mentioned in my previous post about the necessity of completing a product course, the ability to understand someone else’s feelings, thoughts or experiences by imagining what it would like to be in their situation is generally not an easy task.

“Empathy is so much easier when you understand the day-to-day experiences, processes, language, challenges, motivations, and thought patterns of someone.

It isn’t about stating the ‘what’ (i.e. “this will take a whole week to fix”); it’s about knowing the ‘why’ and sometimes the ‘how’ (i.e. “this may look like just a button, but it has dependencies on… therefore could be risky to… which we will need to navigate around…”).”

It helps when you used to be a part of the tech team.

But why ‘developer empathy’? I believe it is the foundation of productive and collaborative communication.

As a PM, you’ll be hands on, working towards building and shaping products with a designer and a team of developers. You will be discussing problems and solutions to prioritise tasks, capabilities, limitations, whether or not to scrap the idea and change direction. You need to build trust, respect and a close relationship with your team to collaborate effectively.

They need to know that you understand their perspective and can defend an idea when stakeholders question the team’s reasoning. At the same time, they prefer if you can be an equal team player and challenge them back, rather than having the attitude of, ‘you’re the SME in this, I’ll do whatever you say.’

Side note: effective communication and cross-collaboration are skills on their own. While understanding technology helps a lot for a PM, it doesn’t mean that ones who come from an engineering background will automatically have these two skills.

Observing the journeys of PMs with engineering backgrounds (A) vs PMs with marketing/sales backgrounds (B), it seems like Group A has an easier time in the beginning of their product journeys (but a harder time later on), and Group B, vice versa.

Tips & Tricks:

• Demonstrate that you are analytical, data-driven, and curious to learn about technical concepts. This is what truly matters for a product person, and you don’t need a technical background for it.

• Get product experience before going for interviews.

  • Volunteer at a small start-up, ask to support the product team in your company, refer back to any entrepreneurial experiences you may have (if that’s your background), or find another way. This will give you the experience and confidence in your product interviews.

• Join developer events. Network. Make some friends from the tech team and ask them questions.

  • While transitioning into my first product role, I didn’t just grab coffee catch-ups with other PMs. I also spoke with a lot of developers. I wanted to understand what makes a great PM from their perspective.

• Read. Practise. Just be curious to learn.

  • Read technical documentation. Watch tutorials on how to build stuff. Look at code. Even by looking at simple code snippets, you can start to recognise patterns. Learn how the internet works, AI, API, what people mean by ‘front end’ and ‘back end’. Read the book, ‘CODE,’ by Charles Petzold. It won’t actually help you to land a product role, but it’s a fascinating book which blew my mind.

  • If you are intimidated to start, that’s ok. That’s why you need to start. If you are not interested (or bored), then you might want to question why you want to be a product person. Being a PM isn’t about being the expert in every technical concept, but it’s about feeling curious to learn about technology.

To sum this up, let’s strip back to some keywords. What are the best product people associated with? Creativity, innovation, solving problems in unique ways, curiosity, adaptability, etc.

The beauty of Product Management is that many great PMs have roots in roles that isn’t product management. Their roots lay in unconventional backgrounds and diversity. The PMs who stand out can connect the dots in ways that impress and challenge others. It’s the mix and mash and match that results in creative and disruptive ideas.

As an aspiring PM, your career history is not a hindrance for you to hide and forget. It is probably your unique advantage in this new chapter. It is where you have developed some of your wonderful strengths, learned about your weaknesses, and wisened up about business and the wider world.

There are great product leaders who recognise and appreciate that too. They are also aware that everyone’s journey in product is different, and coming from XYZ role does not protect one from the challenges of starting a new role, nor smooth out the learning curve.

To wrap up, I have a story to tell, which might make the marketers smile.

After hearing some feedback from the hiring managers about not having a ‘technical background’ and not being ‘technical enough,’ I caught up with Ant Murphy for coffee. I have to mention, he is a smart, experienced and empathetic coach, and I was lucky to grab his time.

He said, “did you know the root of product management lies in marketing?”

I let out a laughter from disbelief. It sounded bizarre at the time. At home, I researched this. Here is a crash course (or a historical summary), if you are curious.

• In the pre-digital world (1930s), Neil McElroy wrote a company memo to describe the role of the ‘Brand Man,’ who should be responsible for managing the product, tracking sales, and promoting the product. In those times, ‘brand’ and ‘quality’ were a product’s main strategic differentiators in the market.

• McElroy influenced Bill Hewlett and David Packard, who later introduced an organisation structure where each product group functioned independently and heavily focused on the voice of the customer.

• Over the years, marketing-originated concepts emerged to create product differentiation. For example, the 4Ps — having the right Product, in the right Place, at the right Price, and using the right Promotion.

• During 1990s, things got a little messy because products were no longer just physical objects. Marketers had to communicate with software engineers about the customer and business needs, without having a strong understanding of the digital technology. More advancements in technology meant more challenges in communication between tech and other business functions, which marketing could no longer bridge.

• Eventually, ‘product managers’ were born. Some claim that marketing gave birth to product management, others say that program managers learned brand skills and transitioned into product roles. Either way, a group of people filled in the gap, and most of the time, these people were not software engineers. They were simply people who were curious to understand technology, excited to collaborate with a variety of business functions, and passionate to build meaningful products for customers.

• In 2001, the Agile Manifesto was written by 17 software engineers to establish a culture that focused on building the best solution to a customer problem. This enhanced cross-functional collaboration and became the fundamentals of the modern ‘product culture.’

All the images I use have been generated using deepai.org (the pop art generator). 🦸‍♀️

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Instead, they may suddenly put up a wall of prejudice and label you as the NBR (the Next Big Risk).

Transitioning into your first product role will require a secondary skill, strategic de-risking.

You can also describe this skill as vibing, blending, or vibrating in the same frequency (oooo….the vibrations). The goal is to present yourself as a product manager without the ‘product manager’ title.

There are a few ways to achieve strategic de-risking, and for the highly ethical individuals who read too much into every word in a conversation, none of these methods include lying.

As the title of this article suggests, taking a course is one way to strategically de-risk yourself in the pool of candidates.

I am not selling a course (and don’t have any plans to sell a course in the future), and I am not sponsored or paid to advertise a specific course.

Why taking a course can de-risk you during the hiring process?

1. Your knowledge of product management and the tech team will widen and deepen, even if the course is idealistic. This will help your confidence levels. 🧠💪

This one is straightforward. Good courses are designed to give you an overview of the day to day of the role, and some of the best practises used by PMs. Understanding the product lifecycle, how PMs make decisions, how tech stand-ups work, and common words that engineers would use so you don’t have to Google everything (i.e. APIs, tech debt, React etc) will give you a lot of confidence. It’s a whole new world, so you’ll need to learn it somehow.

For full disclosure, I took the Product Fundamentals course by Product David (founder, David Wang). I did not come from a technical background and wanted a product leader to take me through what would be most relevant to a product role (as I was getting lost in tech jargon). His courses were self-led (with a Slack community that you can raise questions) and affordable. Most product courses are quite expensive (over $1,500, and on average, between $3,000-5,000), so I was a bit skeptical whether a cheaper course would be valuable for me. Looking back, I made a very good decision.

General Assembly and Product School also offer courses (both highly reputable companies); they were just out of my budget at the time.

During the course and while doing further research, I remember cringing at my ‘product marketing’ self. Those with engineering backgrounds would know the strange language that non-technical people use to describe tech problems. Examples of the things I’ve heard non-technical people say, to give you the chills.

• “I searched online and bought the team llama stickers… Why? You’re always going on about llamas, so I thought that llamas are your favourite animal. No?” 🦙

• “Yeah, I think there is something wrong with the backend of the product. You should check out the backend. It gave me an error, but it had some codes on it, so I think it’s got to do with the backend.”

• “All good, I didn’t want to waste your time, so I fixed it. I saw the button that had error on it, ‘cause it was coloured orange, and I deleted it. So now, there are no orange marks in the code.”

• “Something’s wrong with my keyboard, I think. I’m trying to access article number 400, but it keeps telling me that 404 is not found. I don’t get it. I’m not even trying to access that.”

• “We should solve our tech debt problem because there is an issue to fix every week. I’ve been seeing LinkedIn posts on my feed talking about tech debt. So, I think we need a migration.”

Courses and additional research will help you to not sound so…. 😮‍💨 It will help. Trust me.

You will find it easier to understand tech challenges and communicate with product people and the engineering team.

The best courses will intro you to design as well. This often gets missed, as there is a tendency to worry and focus on closing the technical knowledge gap. Product people work with designers closely, and having an understanding of a good user experience and the design process will make your life so much easier.

As mentioned above, this has helped my confidence levels during product interviews. I didn’t have a whole lot of experience, but I had theory to fall back on. It felt like a safety net. Trust has a mirroring effect. We tend to trust people who trust themselves.

Do technical people need a course? Do BAs need a course? Do people who come from start-up backgrounds, where they wore multiple hats, need a course?

Without going into the nitty gritty detail, if the only function of a course is to de-risk yourself via a certification, then it probably does not make much sense for you to give your time and money. I would not argue that taking a Product Management Fundamentals/Beginners course is the right choice for everyone.

However, you are trying to transition into a new role and this is the best time for you to learn something new. My recommendation would be to focus on upskilling in other ways. For example, you might be a developer, but do you understand the design process, how to conduct user interviews, or how product strategy is made?

Follow your curiosity, perhaps the parts of product management that you don’t know much about, and see where it leads you in your learning journey. Maybe you’ll want to understand product marketing a bit more, or you have a genuine curiosity to pick up AI skills. There are no punishments for learning more. This is something with minimal downside and a high upside.

Tip: I encourage you not to see job applications as dependent (or a following action) on completing a product course. In fact, you can view them both as different learning experiences. The most valuable learning experience would come from practically doing the role. Transitioning into a product role is already quite challenging and takes a long time. Any actions to reduce this time will benefit you.

2. Because courses will be on the idealistic side.

Product courses and theory books get a bad reputation among senior PMs who have been burned out by the reality of companies lacking a product culture. The theory does not match the practise. I cannot argue against that. That doesn’t mean learning the theory is a waste of time.

Firstly, you will have a clear image of what the “ideal” standards are and set high expectations for yourself to perform. I’m sure that most hiring managers will appreciate you aiming high.

Secondly, you won’t be so absorbed by the company culture, because you can identify unhelpful behaviour. Lack of prior knowledge can lead you to believe in anything that’s given to you, including bad practices.

The reality of being junior in a role is that you probably won’t land in a hot scale-up with the top product culture in the industry. Hint hint; most of the time, the “best” companies will try to get the “best” PMs. The purpose of your first product role is not to nail down perfection anyway; it is about gaining some experience and learning as much as you can.

The problem I see with product people who enter into companies without a good product culture is that they adopt bad habits. For example, they practise creating power points and internal politics more than product strategy and innovative thinking. Or, they grow defensive of their ideas, instead of being data-driven, curious and humble. Worse, they assume that this is what ‘product’ is all about. In that case, some feel disappointment. Others continue to carry their learnings to their next roles and wonder why they don’t succeed in other companies.

Thirdly, you will be able to identify companies with good and bad product culture. This will guide you to make career decisions beneficial for your growth.

Lastly, good product courses will not only teach you the theory, but will also acknowledge the reality to ground your expectations.

3. Grabbing opportunities and building a portfolio.

The best courses (for almost any subject) will guide you to build a portfolio by giving you practical examples, case studies and mini projects. This would be a valuable experience, especially if you don’t have prior experience supporting or shadowing product teams.

Most courses nowadays also tend to have community groups where job opportunities, networking events, and questions are shared. You can find temporary job opportunities to gain experience via those channels. You could also find your first product role. 😉

4. Networking.

As mentioned above, by entering into a reputable course, you will learn from experienced product leaders, meet with others on similar journeys, and join a community of PMs. You will find opportunities to connect with a variety of people (sometimes, digitally, sometimes, in-person). This can open a lot of doors for you.

5. Shows that you are a bit nerdy about the craft of product management.

During product interviews, a few people have asked me, “oh, so you want to transition into product. Ok, what have you been doing so far to learn about product?” Fair, and good question.

I took them through my learning roadmap, the resources I've chosen, and the rationale behind them. My passion to learn, curiosity, and adaptability shone in those conversations.

Therefore, taking a course may be a ‘get out of jail’ card for the “you’re not technical enough” judgement.

Many aspiring PMs who received this feedback have spent long hours unpacking what exactly is “enough.” It seems to represent an invisible threshold that aspiring PMs need to pass.

The bias towards people from non-technical (i.e. software engineering) backgrounds during the hiring process is real. I once got asked, “do you even know how to talk with the tech team?” Coming from a start-up background, where everyone talks with everyone, doesn’t fully save you from this bias either.

Let me unpack what qualifies as being “technical enough.” It is simply having empathy for developers — the people you will work with everyday. ‘Simply’ and ‘empathy’ in the same sentence… yeah, it’s not that simple. I have to put a definition here.

Empathy: the ability to understand and share someone else’s feelings, thoughts or experiences by imagining what it would like to be in that person’s situation.

Empathy is so much easier when you understand the day-to-day experiences, processes, language, challenges, motivations, and thought patterns of someone.

Empathy isn’t about stating the ‘what’ (i.e. “this will take a whole week to fix”); it’s about knowing the ‘why’ and sometimes the ‘how’ (i.e. “this may look like just a button, but it has dependencies on… therefore could be risky to… which we will need to navigate around…”).

Stating the obvious, it’s so much easier to understand what your tech team is telling you (and therefore have empathy) when you used to be a part of a tech team.

More advanced or senior PMs who become SMEs in certain processes can even enter into discussions to challenge their tech teams. This makes you a valuable asset to brainstorm, ideate and collaborate with. It will also help you to more confidently bridge the gap between the tech team and other business functions (you may have heard/read the phrase, “fighting for your tech team”).

Completing certain types of courses can give hiring managers more confidence that you understand the world of tech and can work with a team of developers.

Before I wrap up this article, let me clear up some thoughts.

Do I think that enrolling in a course will help you to land a role sooner?

Maybe. This is a difficult statement to make. It would certainly depend on your prior knowledge and experience.

To my knowledge, there hasn’t been a scientific experiment done to measure the link between the number of months it takes for one to land their first product role and whether or not they have taken a product course.

Do I think enrolling in a course is a ‘must-have’ to achieve the outcomes mentioned above and land a product role?

No. There are a lot of ways to get to the same outcome. Taking a product course is only one of those ways.

Note: what I believe is not as important as what hiring managers think. I am not the one hiring for entry-level product roles.

Nowadays, everybody is expected to be their own marketer; your branding will influence your credibility in the eyes of hiring managers. Hence, people use anything to create narratives and strengthen their self-promotion. We live in a world where some people assume you are a ‘product prodigy’ if you have ‘ex-Google’ on your LinkedIn profile. I think that says it all.

Do I think that you should come from a “technical background” to apply for PM roles?

No. In fact, the history of product management lies in marketing. Having a technical background helps a lot, but what makes PMs stand out is analytical thinking skills and curiosity to understand technology (desire to learn/grow continuously). Building trust in your team or leading a tech squad isn’t about knowing every technical concept. There is a lot to unpack here, so I’ll continue this thread in a future post.

So, I don’t think coming from a technical background is a must-have. But some people do, and they feel more comfortable hiring a PM with a technical background (even if the product is not technically complex). When it is already quite challenging to transition into a product role, you may want to do anything you can to make this journey easier for yourself.

*Note: I sometimes joke about the product culture because it carries some ambiguity in its meaning. To be clear, I highly respect product leaders who strive to protect a culture that leads to successful products and team dynamics. I’ve seen and worked with teams where the product culture is contaminated by selfish interests, excessive politics, defensive egos, panic and lack of clear thinking. It never leads to good outcomes. I joke because it’s my style, not to challenge the importance of maintaining a strong culture.

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Every product group I’ve ever entered has a large variety of backgrounds — ex-marketer, software engineer, UX designer, science professor, entrepreneur, architect, finance analyst, YouTube influencer, etc. At this stage, you can’t surprise me.

I reject the general commentary of “become a BA, then a senior BA, then a PM.” Some hiring managers would classify you as a “safer” hire if you have this background, as BAs work closely with PMs. I have a few counterarguments to this way of thinking (but that’s for another post).

Side note: the BA to PM pathway may make internal transitions a little bit easier, in comparison to someone with a different background. But, based on my experiences helping people land their first product role, in the external market, BAs don’t get an easy pass into the product game.

My point: transitioning to a product role from a different background is not a unique experience.

The ones who have successfully made the transition were able to leverage their ‘superpowers’ to create their ‘product’ resumes and smash their product interviews. Later on, those who saw their background as their unique advantage were able to learn product skills and grow rapidly throughout their careers.

Yet, one of the top conversation topics I have with aspiring PMs is about how “there are no commonalities, nothing to leverage.” Let’s unpack this, shall we?

Firstly, let’s get something out of the way. You’ll find it easier to write about your skill gaps than about your transferable skills. That’s because the chances are that there is a lot you don’t know about when it comes to product management. That’s expected! But that doesn’t mean you should focus on what you lack. You will be able to close the gaps once you land your first role.

What should you do with your skill gaps?

• Be aware of what you need to upskill on. Awareness and acceptance are the key words, not worry and reduced self-confidence.

• Use a source that will give you a crash course on any area you don’t know of — AI, Google, Youtube, etc — shouldn’t take longer than 15 minutes on each topic. That will help you to gain a high-level understanding of the product lifecycle and some technical terminologies, so you can maintain a conversation with other PMs.

• Note down the areas you need to gain a deeper understanding of, so you can use them to build a career development plan once you land your first role.

Let’s drill down on your existing strengths

Transferrable Skills

Have you ever seen this triangle before?

It’s a visual demonstration of a product management skills theory, where there is a connection between tech (goal: feasibility), business (goal: viability), and customers (goal: usability). Your background will generally help you to feel strong at one of these corners, moderately capable at another corner, and lack confidence in the last corner.

A classic example is a software engineer being a “natural” at product development, or a UX designer nailing down the product design part of the ‘trio of product skills.’

When you break down each corner of this triangle to specific skills, you may realise that there are plenty of valuable transferable skills you already have. Go, you!

As a product marketer who has moved into product, I also deconstructed this triangle and noted down the skills I brought from my background.

• Project management

• Market research & competitive analysis

• Product engagement strategy

• Data-driven decision making

• Product pricing & packaging

• In-product copywriting

• Experimentation & A/B testing

Someone from a technical background might have QA testing and technical documentation experience, analytical and systems thinking, and architecture knowledge.

Side note: if you have a startup background like me (or were a founder before), you may have worn multiple hats and had a go at mocking up bad Figma designs, conducting user interviews, QA testing, accounting, fixing HTML for email marketing and some other random things. These may not have seemed like useful skills at the time, but are now great experiences to have as a PM!

I have also had the chance to work with individuals who came from unconventional backgrounds (not from tech companies). Note: examples below are specific to the individuals and may not relate to everyone who comes from the same field.

• Scientist from a lab: curiosity, experimentation, analytical, humility, and the mindset that one must look for evidence to prove their assumptions wrong (instead of cherry-picking the evidence or manipulating data to suit their narrative)

• YouTuber: creativity, clear & concise communication skills, storytelling, influencing, and customer empathy & tailoring a service to the needs of customers

• Fashion: precise & detail-oriented, stakeholder management, project management, and strongly aligning with the product vision & brand

Personality Traits & ‘Product Ways of Thinking’

Transitioning into a product role taught me that demonstrating product ways of thinking was more important than specific skills.

Firstly, a lot of hard skills can be taught on the job. Soft skills are much harder to teach. In product, bringing on the wrong culture can be quite destructive, as there are only a few product people with a relatively large influence on other teams (and sometimes we wish this influence were even larger), and what’s shipped to the market directly goes into the customer’s hands. Hiring for the right attitude and personality will lower a lot of risk for your manager.

Secondly, a lot of ‘product skills’ stem from the ‘product ways of thinking.’ Having the right mindset in product is like having very strong foundations. It’s not about ‘what’ you do (i.e. can you run an experiment, or a user interview), but about ‘why’ you choose to do that thing, and ‘how’ you choose to do that thing. Because unfortunately (and fortunately), unlike the theory in textbooks, the product lifecycle is not a linear checklist to follow.

Somebody once told me that all product managers were product leaders. They lead by influence, by being an example, by their innovative ideas, or passionate energies; they lead by having the right mindset, not by a hierarchical power over others.

Personality traits are also valuable because the soft skills that relate to them are more unique (to you), so you can leverage them as superpowers. Let’s explore some examples.

Maybe, you are…

• The mad hatter who solves problems in creative and unconventional ways, with successful results, of course.

• A tornado of ideas, lighting passionate fires in every corner of the organisation, sparking collaboration for innovation. (Not to brag, but a data engineer I worked with once described me that way, and afterwards, I bounced around as a bubbly bunny).

• A sculptor with a knife — very precise and particular with their decision-making, detail-oriented, with excellent prioritisation skills.

• The connector of the dots. You can always answer the ‘why’. You can link every decision to a wider rationale that supports the future strategy (product vision) and impacts on customers and business.

• The storyteller. The one that influences and inspires others (to become the product’s fans) with the stories they share about the products they build.

• The ‘mission impossible’ man/woman. The one who will show an immense amount of stamina, determination and resilience to get the job done. They will challenge and push others to reach further. They will remove or jump over obstacles in their way to achieve outcomes.

There are various ways to think about ‘superpowers.’

Hilary Gridley (Head of Product at Whoop) describes a superpower as “your native way of engaging with the world to create some change… Maybe you turn ambiguity into clarity, or stagnation into energy, or conflict into trust, or isolation into connection.”

This can be summarised with an X —> Y frame: “what’s the ‘before’ state you thrive in, and what’s the ‘after’ state you consistently produce?”

She even built a GPT to help you figure out and connect with your superpowers. 🔥🔥Check it out; Hilary’s Superpower Finder asks some clever questions that’s worth reflecting over.

Natalia Baryshnikova (Head of Product at Atlassian) said on the Product Manager Podcast, “when interviewing product managers, I usually think about the HACK methodology.”

‘H' stands for Humility... (involves curiosity)

'A' stands for Analytical...

‘C' stands for Creativity...

'K' stands for Knife (“cut off the pieces that don’t belong” — a.k.a. prioritisation).

Some other qualities hiring managers are generally after: agility, adaptability, storytelling (or clear & concise communication), futuristic thinking, resilience, customer empathy, courage (to face challenges, try something new, or to say ‘no’), etc.

Side note: the presence of AI in tech companies is challenging all of us, even experienced PMs, to land a role. The traditional ‘hard skills’ or even ‘areas of expertise’ are no longer seen as special traits, because AI can technically learn anything that is constructed by a set of rules.

However, AI does not have a human way of perceiving situations and solving problems (i.e. considering contextual information, feeling the implied meanings during communication, personalities of teammates, trying to find the path of least conflict in an organisation, etc). Being 'human' with our distinct personality traits, backgrounds, ways of 'connecting the dots', and soft skills will continue to separate us from AI (at least in the near future).

As Gridley points out, “people will increasingly be sought out for the unique way they turn problems into results” (a.k.a. their superpowers).

When I realised how much I could draw on my experience and ‘natural’ talents in my product journey, a few things changed.

• I felt much more confident in my capabilities

• I was able to communicate a stronger pitch when talking with hiring managers

• I was able to use curiosity to develop my weaker areas (rather than fear, or acting defensively to cover up the gaps)

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We began exploring the outskirts of Melbourne to find a training hike before we attempt the WAT. Training hikes are supposed to replicate aspects of the trail we are aiming to do, but this is a bit challenging in our case.

That being said, if you know an exhausting trail with steep climbs on cliff edges and scrambling involved, please let us know. We’ve been recommended the Sugarloaf Peak hike, so we will be checking that out.

Given the elevation of the Western Arthurs Trail, we decided to improve our muscular endurance by climbing on A LOT of stairs with heavy packs. This was also recommended to us by a fellow hiker we met on the Rees-Dart trail. 1000 steps is undeniably A LOT of stairs.

Kokoda Memorial Track in Dandenong Ranges National Park is a great trail to train on, and we are not the only ones who think that. There is a massive car park at the bottom of the trail, and some spots to park before and after the car park (on the sides of the roads). However, on a sunny day, by 10 am, you will struggle to find parking.

If you don’t have a car, this trail is surprisingly easily accessible by public transport. Depending on where you live, expect to take a train and a bus.

David checking parking signs.

Note: if you are parking outside the main car park, watch for the signs. Some areas have free parking, while other areas have a ‘no parking’ sign. Don’t be fooled by others parking along the ‘no parking’ sections. We have seen officers issue fines to a row of cars on the weekends.

Once you park and walk to the memorial, you will notice 3 routes. Both Lyrebird Track Fitness Steps and the Kokoda Track are great to train on and lead to the same endpoint. The main difference between the tracks is the terrain, which impacts the muscle groups that are trained the most. We complete both trails back-to-back in about 2 hours.

Tip if you wish to follow a similar training routine:

• Hike the Lyrebird Track last if you want to focus on your calves.

• Hike the Kokoda Track last if you want to focus on your quads.

Either way, you can only come back via the Lyrebird Track because the Kokoda Track is quite narrow, busy and slippery.

Note: there are public toilets and a cafe to the left of the car park. There are picnic tables, BBQ areas and a kids’ playground section on the grassy area near the car park. Lovely place for a family day adventure, but dogs are not allowed.

Photos from the memorial. Quite detailed and interesting information if you’re curious.

Lyrebird Track

1.4km steep climb on alternating terrain — long sections of stone stairs and gravel dirt track. Wide trail with gaps between the trees to see views of the city as you climb. Stunning pictures can be captured during sunrise and sunset.

I usually dislike busy hiking areas, as I go on nature adventures to turn off the sounds around me. But seeing so many others training on this trail has kept me motivated and excited. Expect to find kookaburras, red parrots, green parrots, hikers with bags and poles, families wanting to get fitter (and wanting to tire out their hyperactive boys), inspiring old couples climbing with confidence, and some sulky person drenched in sweat (generally complaining). You will also notice trail runners. They impress me as they run up the stairs and leave my heart hanging in worry as they run down the gravel dirt track (in my opinion, it’s dodgy and risky to do that).

There are two ‘fitness blocks’ along the way with benches for push-ups, crunches, etc. I’ve seen more people resting and stretching on these blocks than people using them as exercise. I guess the trail is challenging enough.

At the top of the trail, you will find 5 water fountains to fill up your bottles and multiple benches to rest. It’s a lovely spot to have snacks, take pictures, and enjoy the rainforest.

Be very careful and take small steps when coming down this trail during wet weather. Light rain easily causes the terrain to get muddy and slippery, even on the stairs. We see someone slip every weekend. We also see that I slip every fortnight (very frustrating, but no bad falls, touch the wood). I probably need more grippy shoes.

Kokoda Track Memorial Walk (1000 Steps)

The 1.4km trail starts very innocently on a wide and uphill dirt track. You may wonder in the first 10 minutes, where are the stairs? Soon, you will see the ‘1000 Steps One Way’ sign. That’s when the real challenge begins.

Don’t worry, there are plenty of spaces to pull to the side and rest for the first 70% of the way. You may also want to step to the side as the human traffic queues up quite easily.

The last 30% is very steep, slippery, narrow and windy. The trail becomes a grind. Even on dry days, this track tends to get a little muddy and wet. Be careful on rainy days. There are handrails for assistance.

This trail is more blended into the rainforest and more adventurous, so it’s my favourite one in this area. It may leave you sweaty, but at the top, there is a sense of accomplishment and relief about climbing 1000 steps. That’s worth the journey.

Note: some patient hikers have actually counted the number of steps on this trail. While we’d like to think that we completed 1000 steps every weekend, it’s actually 780 steps.

Ramblers Walk to Kokoda Track

While recovering from my knee injury, I walked on this trail many times. It’s short, so one may assume that this is an easy trail, but expect a few steep sections and a lot of slippery mud. Your lower body stabilisers will be working hard, so it was perfect as a rehab walk.

At first, I thought this forest trail was quite confusing because there were a lot of turn-offs to side trails. These side trails are fun to explore and generally lead to picnic areas. If you stay on the track, you will pass a few large fallen trees, a pretty creek with some frogs hanging out, and eventually end up on the Kokoda Track.

The elevation is low, so this trail is less strenuous. Common to see trail runners and families with young children.

A suggestion at the end of your hike would be to stop by Lorna for a reward. That’s our favourite cafe near the trails (driving distance away). I am obsessed with the quality of their food.

The best carrot cake of my life (and I dislike carrot cake 98% of the time). Also the best rose and pistachio cake of my life (words cannot describe the soft, moist, rich and dense pistachio cake with light and rosy cream on top). Their breakfast menu is delicious, but the treats were the hits for me.

Questions: if you have any questions about my notes, leave a comment and I’ll reply.

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Let me explain why having a powerful answer to this question is important.

1. Answering this question will give you confidence while transitioning into a product role. Or maybe, your answer will reveal that product management is actually not the right role for you.

Transitioning into a product role takes 6-12 months. Product Dave (provides a great Product Management Fundamentals Course, if you are interested) has an article about this topic to set the right expectations: “if you possess transferable skills, relevant knowledge, or a strong drive, landing a position in about 8 to 9 months is not uncommon.” This timeframe is accurate, according to my experiences helping aspiring PMs to land their first role.

It’s a long journey! The stronger your reason is to keep on pushing against the currents, the more likely you will be to achieve your goal (and still maintain your passion).

There seems to be a glorified storyline tagged onto the product manager role. The fact that it’s challenging to get into product (like a closed, exclusive, invite-only bubble) doesn’t help to break this “cool” image either. Or maybe it’s watching too many sexy Silicon Valley entrepreneur movies that’s hinting the wrong ideas. Anyhow, I recommend an exercise for you to follow (it involves talking with other PMs) to understand if product management is right for you (explained in my prior post).

In short, if you view product management as an easy way out of software development or entrepreneurship, where you get to work independently to draw your own product vision, make decisions according to your passions (involving the most fancy ‘technical’ platforms) to launch the next ground-breaking ‘unicorn’ (which involves intelligent words like, Gen-AI, blockchain, VR, Web3), and earn a sh*t ton of commissions, then start practising your lucid dreaming skills. You may have a higher chance of achieving all of that while you’re sleeping. And it may not even take 8-12 months.

2. You will be asked this question in product interviews.

As you progress through the journey of transitioning into a product role, you will notice that there is something called a “product culture” — which is an ambiguous (no standard definition), yet highly valuable ideology — almost all product leaders are obsessed with protecting it from the foreign invaders. You may be that foreign invader. They won’t know until they quiz you thoroughly.

Once you interact with other PMs, you will notice that there is a common set of values, behaviours, and ways of thinking — a shared understanding — that they possess. Given how lean product teams are, and how impactful a product manager can be in a company (especially if the company is not a large corporation), it makes sense for leaders to be paranoid about preserving the ‘ways of thinking’ that have a historical track record of bringing high success and team collaboration. Do some people take this too far to the point that they are simply inflexible and closed-minded? Maybe some people do. But let’s leave the exceptions to the side.

An example is trying to find out if you approach ideas/solutions from a scientist’s or a lawyer’s perspective. Do you try to test and search for reasons against your proposed solution? Or do you try to cherry-pick the pieces of evidence which will defend and support your idea?

For those who don’t come from a product background, some of these ‘ways of thinking’ may not come naturally. It may even take some time to adjust and digest why these are important to the role (and how they lead to team success).

What does that have to do with the “why do you want to be a product manager” question? Trust me — your answer will reveal a lot about your personality, values, and ways of thinking.

To clarify, even within a high-level shared understanding among product people, there are variances. Some companies want to put more emphasis on customer empathy, while others may heavily focus on data, or stakeholder management and internal influencing skills (quite common in larger organisations). So, the way you answer this question will also help your hiring manager understand if you are the right fit for their team’s culture. Fair.

3. At multiple points throughout your career, you will ask yourself this question.

This role is not easy. Hope I made that clear. Most product ideas will fail (stats keep on changing, but assume it’s somewhere between 75-95%). There is a lot of pressure to launch ‘the next big thing’ and have a visible impact. The AI race between companies only amplified this pressure in recent years. Your stakeholders often won’t prioritise the customer (they’ve got their KPIs and the business revenue), yet you’ll be expected to repeat like a parrot what the customer needs and wants. As you are working towards fixing a problem, 10 other issues will arise, and everyone will have a different opinion as to which problem to prioritise and how to solve that problem. Too much noise in a very fast environment.

It’s so much fun! But as years go on, you may find yourself feeling quite tired. Burnout among product managers has been named “the silent epidemic” by product leaders and influencers. According to Mind the Product, +80% of PMs experience burnout during their careers. Evie Brockwell’s research reveals that this figure is actually 92%, and 72% of PMs have experienced burnout more than once.

When things are tough, stepping back, pausing yourself, turning down all the noise, taking a few breaths in, maybe going on a walk, and asking yourself, “why do I want to be a product manager,” can really help. It’s a question that can connect you back to your passion and remind you that the tough situation is only temporary.

4. The answer you provide will help you choose the right company, product culture, team, industry, and product you work on in the future.

Why you want to become a product manager is ultimately what makes you excited about your career (what gets you to wake up with passion).

Maybe you realise that your interest lies in HealthTech because you really want to see the impact a product has on customers (and you are passionate about the health space). Maybe you realise that you’ll prefer to work for start-ups because of the fast pace and ambiguity (with lots of opportunities to unpack)!

Your answer will help you chase after fulfilling experiences and plan the future of your career. As you get more senior in your role, it could even help you to understand if you want to climb up the leadership ladder.

5. The answer you provide will help you connect with a wider personal purpose.

Half the time I mention “purpose,” I get a bored reaction. Maybe bored isn’t the right word. It’s like when someone rolls their eyes at you, thinking, “does this really need to link to some existential purpose?” I’m not trying to pull you into spiritualism or philosophy, nor trying to connect you with the wider universe. If you wish to go down that route, that’s your call to make.

Just think through this carefully. Let me break it up for you.

Disclaimer: this may sound a little depressing for some.

• You will be paid to spend 7.5 hours for 5 days of the week (during peak time, when you have the most physical, emotional and mental energy) doing this job, if you work remotely (realistically it’s 8-9 hours).

• Add some commuting to work time, and depending on how far you live from the office, you may be spending 9-10 hours for 5 days of the week.

• That is 45-50 hours every week. If that much time does not give you meaning, purpose, satisfaction, fulfilment, then what does?

• Most of us don’t even get that much sleep every night (the average human sleeps 6.5 hours each night), which is the 2nd most time-consuming activity in your life.

I am not suggesting having work as the main purpose or attraction of your life. I’m just doing the maths here. You don’t have a lot of time remaining per day, especially when you take out house cleaning, cooking, shopping, sleeping, etc.

In short, while I am not a psychologist, having a meaningful reason to show up to work every day would really help with your mental health in the long run.

You may have guessed that there are no right answers to the question, why do you want to become a product manager. However, I have diligently noted down the answers I heard while interviewing other product managers during my career transition journey.

Below have been rephrased to exclude names and to shorten the long stories.

• “As a Software Engineer, a few years into my career, I realised that I prefer to discuss the why, thinking of the customer, rather than the how. There is so much meaning and purpose to why. So many questions you can ask and unpack.”

• “I had a digital design degree. But I wanted to wear as many hats as possible. I enjoyed working with marketing, customer support, design, but I could never see myself doing only one thing. I also knew that I was a natural problem solver. The more complex a problem was, the more I was fascinated to find solutions. I told my mentor that there has to be a magical role that gets me close to the customer, gets me to think about design, and work with marketers, while solving problems. She told me to become a product manager.”

• “I loved building stuff, even though coding was just a side hobby. I got frustrated at upper management for making decisions without considering the customer feedback. I just felt that the company I was working for at the time was so misaligned with what the customer needed. I was like, who comes up with these decisions? I want to have a word with them. Then I realised there was a role called “product manager.”

• “To get shit done. I like building things, progress, and fast-paced environments. My nose is also always in other people’s businesses; I want to understand the why, the big picture, strategy, and how everything interconnects. So I became the middleman who helps things move forward and be delivered. I also get to be the first one knowing the why, ‘cause I work for a start-up and always talk with the customers.”

Here was my response at the time of making this transition.

“I’m a problem solver. Genuinely love solving complex problems. I tend to have odd, creative, or unconventional ways of solving problems, but that’s what makes it fun. My heart feels warm and complete when I solve a problem and see the impact it has on others. That’s probably why I am always on the go, always trying to improve things around me. I’m after a challenge that will get me hands-on building something and that can leave an impact.”

Note: I give myself permission to change my reason as I grow in product.

In fact, I recommend that you challenge your answer each time you join a new product or company, before you take on a promotion, or maybe as part of your annual self-reflection.

Funny that I have argued throughout this post that there is no right answer to this question, because there are plenty of wrong answers you can provide. You can probably guess what those might be. 😉

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I knew that I loved solving problems by building and creating things, felt sparks in my heart when seeing customer impact, and my mind saw everything as something to improve. Seriously, the All Trails App I used on my weekend hikes needed improvement, my personal routine needed improvement, team collaboration at work needed improvement — I always want to optimise everything. But was that enough (to pursue a career in product)?

Let’s break this thought into 2 major and a few minor questions so you can answer with confidence.

What is Product Management?

If you know anything about product management or have worked alongside a product team, start by asking yourself what product management means to you. Let’s get any opinions, observations, expectations, prior beliefs and biases written down. Be honest with yourself. How do you imagine your life to be as a product person? Then, you can compare whether your expectations match the reality.

If you are clueless, that’s ok. Let’s get to the next stage — heavy research. This is a very important step which you should spend a lot of time on. No shortcuts are allowed.

Your research should uncover what product management is in theory and how it plays out in real life. It should lead you to understand the must-have and the nice-to-have skills of a product manager. What is the life of a PM? What are the common work routines, values, and complaints of PMs?

At the end of this research phase, you should be able to describe product management as a person with its distinct personality traits and lifestyle. I know that the role of a product manager differs according to the company. However, you should still be able to recognise the trends and patterns. You can also create 2-3 different PM personalities/archetypes to capture this variance.

How do you go about researching all of this? I highly recommend varying your resources to gain a holistic and objective view. Read books, online articles, LinkedIn posts written by product people, the job descriptions posted on LinkedIn ads, listen to podcasts, watch YouTube videos, and talk to other product people from different types of businesses (i.e. start-ups, scale-ups, big corporations, B2B, B2C, SAAS, e-commerce, and even different industries).

Marty Cagan’s book, ‘Inspired,’ is an all-time classic which would give you a great understanding of the theory behind product management. Lenny’s Podcast (and Lenny’s Newsletter), Ant Murphy’s Newsletter and Product Thinking Podcast (by Melissa Perri) are great to tune into.

Interviewing other product people is so much fun! It will definitely improve your interviewing skills and confidence. Product community is usually open to helpful communications (despite how busy they are) if you approach with curiosity and passion. They can even become your future advocates when you start to apply for product roles.

1. Find a group of people who have a similar background to you on LinkedIn (in my case, it was professionals who began their careers in marketing).

2. Send them a clear and concise message, stating your intentions of transitioning into product and asking for a 30-minute call to grab their advice.

3. Some PMs will respond. Some won’t. Schedule many calls. You are not only trying to find out what the role of a PM is (with its pros and cons), but also how this role differs in different businesses.

4. Prep a list of questions. While good preparation is necessary to unlock necessary insights, when you allow the conversation to flow naturally, there is a lot of surprising information you can uncover. So remember to be flexible during your call.

5. Take many notes during your conversations, or ask to record the session.

Sometimes, I see young people reading online articles about how product management is a booming, cool techy role where you get to build unicorn products with fancy taglines like blockchain, DeFi, GenAI, on fancy platforms, without knowing how to code. Woohoo! Don’t miss out! If a role is marketed to you as ‘too good to be true,’ then you know what that means.

The reality is that smaller companies don’t have the budgets to work on mind-blowing technology (most of the time), and larger organisations drown you in their political games and slooooowwwww speed (most of the time).

Sometimes, I see ‘wanna be entrepreneurs but can’t take a risk with their financial situations’ (fair, economy is tough), who hope that in a product role (and in the industry they are interested in), they’ll have the freedom to build their dreams and control the business flow. They just end up causing chaos and drama in the teams they join (until they get forced out of their role).

Sometimes, people who didn’t find success as a software developer but still wanted to feel like a developer think that moving into product is the answer. They assume that being technical is enough, that they can make plans independently, and that the skill of effective communication is for the project managers and marketers in the team. Not sure what to say — they’re in for a shock.

Sometimes, people just want to be a project coordinator with an impressive and ‘intelligent’ title, so they think that product management is the solution. Unfortunately (and sadly), people like that can find roles in large organisations with bad product culture and disappear within the crowd.

Talking with other PMs really grounds you in the ‘ugly’ reality.

Heads up: half of the PMs I met in my career would not recommend anyone to become a PM (high burnout rates, etc), unless they have strong personal reasons (a passionate fire in their hearts) to pursue this career.

Most PMs I met would also say that they absolutely love their roles. So do I. Transitioning to product management has been the best career decision of my life so far. If you can still find the beauty in this role and empathise with the passion of being a product person, then this role is right for you.

Is it right for me?

Once your ‘product discovery’ (deep research) is over, identify some key themes to question and challenge yourself. This exercise requires self-awareness and self-reflection skills.

Here are some questions that I asked myself during the early stages of my product journey. Think deeply and critically.

Personality Questions

I don’t want to label anything as a ‘must-have’, but this section is quite important. If you find most of these points relatable, it's a good sign.

1. Do you like chasing after challenges? Do you enjoy solving complex problems? Are you persistent with your goals and won’t give up until you try every possible way?

2. Do you get excited about the unknowns? Can you approach ambiguity with optimism and motivation? When there are factors out of your control, how uncomfortable do you feel, and how much does it impact your focus at work?

While working for larger organisations will provide more certainty and predictability to your day-to-day, the product role revolves around testing assumptions (not defending and forcing your ideas and opinions out).

Expect a high number of dependencies, unknowns, floating ideas, uncovering new insights every day/week (depending on how fast your company moves), and changing direction to a new solution when your heart was sold on delivering something else.

3. Do you have the courage to strongly express your ideas/vision and lead? Do you have inner confidence without an external reason or backing? Even when you know that there is a high chance of being proven wrong and blamed for it? Even when you know that you are not the expert in this area for making that decision? Even when you know that everyone else in the room is actually more technical, more experienced, maybe even more intelligent than you? Even when you know that all of these people may challenge your view on the spot?

A Head of Tech I once worked with mentioned that one of the worst qualities a PM can have is uncertainty and insecurity — when they can’t commit to something (make a decision) and keep apologising after each person who asks a question or challenges their views. He described it as “a scared leader spreading confusion.”

It’s ok to make mistakes. There is no mistake that’s worse than disabling your ability to make a mistake. When there is a flow of movement, you can iterate and reverse directions. When you are static, you fade away, and the product will die with you.

4. Do you have the curiosity and humility to be proven wrong again and again? Do you have the courage to admit when you are wrong?

PMs like to say, “focus on the problem, not the solutions” because even the “best solutions” could easily be proven wrong when put out to the market for testing.

I made a scientist analogy a few times in my LinkedIn posts because the best PMs really know how to think like a scientist. When they have a solution or an assumption to test, instead of looking for reasons to prove themselves right (like a lawyer defending a court case), they search for reasons to prove themselves wrong. If there is nothing to be found, then they are more right than they are wrong.

5. Are you a lifelong learner? Do you enjoy the process of learning?

I love how almost everyone answers, ‘yes,’ to this question. It must feel good to know oneself as a ‘lifelong learner.’ But most people seem not to go out of their way to pick up new skills, hobbies, or information, and limit their ‘learning’ to what their roles (or performance plans) offer them (to get a pay rise). I believe being a ‘lifelong learner’ requires a bit more effort than that.

Enjoying the process of learning is an idea that the book, ‘The Inner Game of Tennis,’ by W. Timothy Gallwey explains really well. It has been a transformative book for me at the beginning of my product journey.

6. Do you have a drive to make an impact in this world? Do customers/users motivate you?

Maybe seeing positive feedback from a customer makes your day. Maybe knowing that you helped a friend overcome a challenge or start a new hobby lit a fire in your heart. Maybe you enjoy community work. My point is, maintaining a strong customer connection and empathy will help you succeed as a product person.

7. Do you enjoy driving progress and improvement?

Maybe you have personal goals to work on. Maybe when you subscribe to a new product, your mind immediately thinks of a way to uplift the experience. Maybe your house gets a renovation every X years. You want to see progress, iteration and innovation all around you.

8. Can you express opposing traits/skills or wear multiple hats?

Examples…switching between being analytical and creative. Or, being futuristic and focused on the big picture during a strategy session, then grounded and examining the details of a current project you need to deliver. Or, showing sensitivity to customer problems, but resolving issues with a rational business sense, considering financial impacts on teams. Or being extremely focused on a task, but then ready to switch directions quickly when necessary.

Skills Questions

You don’t have to be perfectly aligned in this section, but you need to want to make an alignment. Hence, these questions are phrased differently.

1. Are you interested in communicating clearly, with more impact and influence?

You may be the ‘ideas person’ of the team, but that doesn’t mean that the team will follow everything you say. The art of convincing (and negotiating) will come in handy to move through situations smoothly.

2. Are you interested in developing my conflict management skills (including providing negative feedback, setting boundaries and saying ‘no’)? Can you do that while feeling and showing empathy to others?

This is a BIG point and one that a lot of us find uncomfortable to practise.

If you work for a passionate team where people tend to wear multiple hats, you will hear a lot of good-intended feedback on the product vision. You’ll hear some ‘awesome’ product feature ideas that are rooted in personal biases, historical experiences, or from a conversation someone had with one customer. You might even hear out-of-touch ideas from the CEO (with immense passion) — shocking, I know! Some of these ideas/suggestions will make you laugh (don’t laugh, as it will be offensive), some of them will make you frustrated, and some of them will put you in a difficult spot.

If you work for a team with strictly defined and separate roles (also with a strong hierarchy), there may be an assumption for you to follow the direction of your leaders (even if they don’t talk to the customer or have the relevant product skills to make a judgment).

Either way, this role works under pressure with a lot of (opinionated) stakeholders, mostly demanding more revenue in a magically short amount of time. You will need to respond to them appropriately to gain credibility, trust, and support.

Remember that dropping the ego, feeling curious about alternative solutions, being flexible with plans, and talking with customers will be your skills as a product person (even though it will be nice for others to share similar qualities). Others may not be skilled in these and may be reactive to defend their ideas. We all want to be right as humans; being proven wrong makes us feel stupid. Successfully managing conflict will make you shine as a PM.

3. Are you interested in building your resilience, stress management and emotional regulation skills?

It’s an intense role with a lot of mistakes to be made along the way (and some frustrated and frustrating stakeholders), so buckle up and set up some box-breathing habits.

4. Are you interested in becoming more adaptable and agile with your plans?

When there is a bug, your perfectly structured plan of delivering something else may go into the trash (or at least, be put on hold). There is a reason why the topic of creating ‘roadmaps’ is highly debatable (it’s a fiery debate) in the world of product. To summarise, while a lot of roles view following a plan step-by-step as a measure of success, product people are often suspicious of highly detailed and perfected plans. Have you ever heard of the saying, “plans are useless, but planning is essential?” Hint hint.

Also consider if you are strictly a 9 am - 5 pm person, or a ‘jobs to be done’ (task by task) person. I am not advocating for ignoring work-life balance or glorifying burnout. There are some jobs where one will succeed with a strict day-to-day structure (and an hourly plan of what need to be achieved), and some jobs that needs to be taken week by week (or day by day).

I also have to admit, as an over-planner, this is an area that I found more challenging in my product role. There are certainly ways to overcome this challenge; it’s about where you put your focus and how you list your priorities.

5. Are you interested in becoming better at prioritising problems, goals and tasks?

I mentioned in one of my LinkedIn posts that product managers swim in an ocean of problems, and most of the time, they can only hold onto one problem at a time. It doesn’t end there. A problem could have a hundred different solutions. Lots of probabilities, possibilities and pathways that you can take every week. The magic word to navigate your day-to-day challenges will be ‘prioritisation.’

6. Are you interested in developing your creativity? Can you try to solve problems in unconventional and creative ways?

A common misconception about product managers is that they need to be very technical and analytical. Products need innovation to stand out — sometimes, radical change and disruption by solving problems in unconventional ways. Looking at life’s challenges from a creative lens will really help you to be successful as a PM.

7. Are you interested in working with data and becoming more analytical?

It may be easy to feel a lot of empathy for a customer and get caught up in solving their specific problem in a B2C product. But that customer may be an outlier of the wider trends and mass data. Strategically and purposefully using data to uncover insights will advantage you. On the other hand, manipulating data to prove your point will lead to losses.

8. Are you interested in understanding how technology works?

You don’t need to excel in coding, but you will need to have excellent communication with the people who code every day. Communication is a two-way street, but in this case, the unspoken rule is that it’s the PM’s job to enable good communication.

General Career Questions

1. What were your proudest moments at work? What were the moments that made you feel fulfilled, motivated and excited?

What skills were you utilising at those times? What made those moments special for you? Do these moments have similarities to product management? Will you be able to capture those special moments in a product role?

2. What does ‘play’ mean to you?

If it helps, think of your childhood. What sparks the innocent childish excitement in your heart? Can you find that in a product role?

You don’t have to answer, ‘yes 100%’ to everything. But by the end of this exercise, you should feel more confident in answering, “is product management right for me?”

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